Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 604

@Lethbridgean could it do the H2 O2 thing in some sort of fast fashion? I am far from a physicist or a chemist.
by Nancy 4/9/2011 1:44:22 AM

@Nancy, I would assume a quick buildup, as the rods would start getting hotter as they lost water.
by wtm 4/9/2011 1:44:51 AM

@Nancy - Fast if they tried to hit it with seawater at the time they rods were hot, steamy to , and explosive
by Lethbridgean 4/9/2011 1:44:52 AM

@NHK Listener would a reactor leak into the drywell do that? Add zirconium
by Nancy 4/9/2011 1:45:14 AM

@NHK Listener - I didn't say it came from the drywell but accumulated there
by Lethbridgean 4/9/2011 1:45:34 AM

@Nancy Well yes it could be that.. So that makes more sense
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 1:46:07 AM

Whatever is still holding containment on 3 like the reactor cap, those are known to leak out the gasket at a certain pressure.
by Nancy 4/9/2011 1:46:12 AM

@Lethbridgean no I corrected my thinking so no prob..
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 1:46:41 AM

@Leth, I am not sure that the drywell extends all the way around the vessel and to the top. I think it is only on the bottom of the vessel.
by wtm 4/9/2011 1:46:53 AM

Could enough zirconium leak out to contribute to such a massive explosion?
by Nancy 4/9/2011 1:46:59 AM

@nhk have you seen the dose rate at reactor one is at 100 s or is this old news too
by quietlywatching 4/9/2011 1:48:17 AM

JAIF is out
by wtm 4/9/2011 1:49:12 AM

@Nancy Just means that if pressure in the drywell caused by whatever it may be.. exceeds 70psi. the drywell can begin to leak around the seals.. Now if the drywell is full of hydrogen then that can lead to an explosion.
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 1:49:24 AM

@quietlywatching Yeah it has dropped back a bit.. 68.3 fukushimadatapage.com
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 1:51:51 AM

JAIF readings for 10:00 APR 9 Reactor Water level (Apr. 08 12:00)
(A) -1650mm (B) -1650mm
Reactor Water level (Apr. 08 12:00)
-1500mm
Reactor Water level (Apr. 08 12:00)
(A) -1850mm, (B) -2250mm
Thermography (Apr. 08 07:30)
SFP: 46℃
Reactor pressure (Apr. 08 12:00)
(A) 0.395MPaG, (B) 0.793MPaG
Reactor pressure (Apr. 08 12:00)
(A) -0.020MPaG, (B) -0.020MPaG
Reactor pressure (Apr. 08 12:00)
(A) 0.004MPaG, (B) -0.079MPaG
CV pressure (Apr. 08 13:00)
0.185MPaabs
CV pressure (Apr. 08 12:00)
0.100MPaabs
CV pressure (Apr. 08 12:00)
0.1052MPaabs
RPV temperature (Apr. 08 12:00)
141.2℃ at feed water line nozzle
Water temperature in SFP (Apr. 08 12:00)
53.0℃
Thermography (Apr. 08 07:30)
CV: 33℃, SFP: 23℃
Thermography (Apr. 08 07:30)
Top of R/B: 30℃
Thermography (Apr. 08 07:30)
CV: 35℃, SFP: 56℃
by wtm 4/9/2011 1:52:19 AM

@wtm - Think secondary containment then, and it sure as hell better extend all the way around or it would be much of a containment.
by Lethbridgean 4/9/2011 1:55:22 AM

@Leth, you do have the CV all the way around the RPV (reactor) but the drywell is what the CV sits on, and has the torus running through it. I don't think that the drywell actually is open all the way around the CV, it only covers the bottom half.
by wtm 4/9/2011 1:57:26 AM

@all Check this pdf to see how the reactor is built. www.vgb.org
by Pedro Jesus 4/9/2011 2:00:37 AM

by NHK Listener via I54.tinypic 4/9/2011 2:01:04 AM

by NHK Listener via I56.tinypic 4/9/2011 2:04:29 AM

by NHK Listener via I51.tinypic 4/9/2011 2:04:56 AM

@NHK, I thought it was the reactor vessel gasket that could leak at 70 psi, not the containment one?
by Nancy 4/9/2011 2:06:30 AM

must be containment, since pv operates at 1000
by Markfm 4/9/2011 2:08:03 AM

@Nancy PCV=Drywell.. same same.Leaks at 70psi. RPV will go to around 1050psi
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 2:09:06 AM

@Rob in SF - not Charra though
by Lethbridgean 4/9/2011 2:09:06 AM

Hot off the press 09Apr. Jaif update www.jaif.or.jp
by marie rich 4/9/2011 2:13:54 AM

so drywell is good to about 475 kpa, in an undamaged state
by Markfm 4/9/2011 2:14:58 AM

@NHK Listener- Yes I agree, but 8Mpa is equal to to 1,160Psi. But I like your number better cause it is an old reactor.
by Lethbridgean 4/9/2011 2:16:04 AM

Lets see if this pastes OK......Temperature Escalation
► About 75 % of the core cooled
by steam only.
 Cladding temperatures
exceed ≈ 1200 °C.
 Start of significant zirconium
oxidation in steam atmosphere.
Zr + 2 H20 ► ZrO2 + 2 H2 + Heat
 Exothermal reaction leads to
an additional core heatup.
 Oxidation of 1 kg of zirconium
generates ≈ 44.2 g of hydrogen.
 Hydrogen production:
► ≈ 300 to 600 kg in unit 1,
► ≈ 300 to 1000 kg in units 2 & 3.
► Hydrogen pushed Source: AREVA NP, March 24, 2011
is via the wetwell
into the primary containment.
by wtm 4/9/2011 2:18:18 AM

@Lethbridgean 1050 is where the relief valves start to go off.. As for RPV failure from overpressure I don't know the exact number.
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 2:18:51 AM

Experts disagree. Affects info given public. www.nytimes.com
by Scilla 4/9/2011 2:20:17 AM

After the bruising they have had, the drywell # may be the RPV # soon
by Markfm 4/9/2011 2:20:49 AM

@NHK Listener - see I did not know that. I have asked that for weeks with never a response ,I think we are becoming buddy's,
by Lethbridgean 4/9/2011 2:22:33 AM

2-1. Summary of Fukushima Dai-ichi NPS
Unit 1 Unit 2 Unit 3 Unit 4 Unit 5 Unit 6
BWR-3 BWR-4 BWR-4 BWR-4 BWR-4 BWR-5
PCV Model Mark-1 Mark-1 Mark-1 Mark-1 Mark-1 Mark-2
Electric Output (MWe) 460 784 784 784 784 1100
Max. pressure of RPV 8.24MPa 8.24MPa 8.24MPa 8.24MPa 8.62MPa 8.62MPa
Max. Temp of the RPV 300℃ 300℃ 300℃ 300℃ 302℃ 302℃
Max. Pressure of the CV 0.43MPa 0.38MPa 0.38MPa 0.38MPa 0.38MPa 0.28MPa
Max. Temp of the CV 140℃ 140℃ 140℃ 140℃ 138℃ 171℃(D/W)
105℃(S/C)
Commercial Operation 1971,3 1974,7 1976,3 1978,10 1978,4 1979,10
Emergency DG 2 2 2 2 2 3*
Electric Grid 275kV×4 500kV×2
Plant Status on Mar. 11 In
Operation
In
Operation
In
Operation
Refueling
Outage
Refueling
Outage
Refueling
Outage
* One Emergency DG is Air-Cooled
8
by marie rich 4/9/2011 2:22:43 AM

@Scilla I can't stand the nytimes.. The report (the one they say they are quoting)does not say fuel was blown a mile away..
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 2:23:43 AM

It's a different article, different topic. In NRC document, page 13 talks about fuel rods.
by Scilla 4/9/2011 2:26:39 AM

Estimation of General Electric:
Accumulation of 45 tons of
salt in reactor cores (?) so far,
?
with possible impacts on
reactor core coolability.
by wtm 4/9/2011 2:27:50 AM

@wtm Source?
by Pedro Jesus 4/9/2011 2:28:23 AM

@Scilla I read it. Neutrons detected at a mile.. not fuel
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 2:28:38 AM

@NHK Listener @Scilla I can't get the NYT to open it just goes to their log in page. Punishment to us Canadians for their falling revenue
by Lethbridgean 4/9/2011 2:29:12 AM

@NHK Listener I remember reading a report (not official, of course) about rods having been scattered miles away around the plant. Speculation after speculation....
by Pedro Jesus 4/9/2011 2:29:49 AM

@Lethbridgean nytimes quote:An assessment in late March by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission said that hydrogen explosions at the plant might have blown particles of nuclear fuel from the reactors’ spent-fuel pools up to a mile away. The Tokyo Electric Power Company, the operator of the Fukushima Daiichi plant, says that while the pools remain exposed at the most-damaged reactors, the fuel remains safely inside.
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 2:30:31 AM

The MegaFloat™ was allegedly on a 10 day voyage. Seems it's past due... Truth is: "The so-called 'mega-float' was to be moved from its home port in Shizuoka prefecture to Yokohama, where it is to be fitted for use at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, the Jiji Press news agency reported.
The float, which is to arrive at Fukushima on April 16, has a capacity to hold 10,000 tons. It is 136 metres long and 46 metres wide and was used as a floating island for sport anglers."
by Rob in SF 4/9/2011 2:31:11 AM

@Pedro Jesus Have you read this one.. The one the time is quoting..The RST Assessment fukushimafaq.wikispaces.com
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 2:31:56 AM

@NHK Listener. Do you believe that fuel rods were likely ejected during one or more of the explosions, units 1 or 3 or 4?
by Scilla 4/9/2011 2:32:19 AM