@Jim Carver - Honestly, I think that NY Times article referencing a supposed nuclear executive is probably bull. At best, it's speculation. The leading hypothesis as the moment is that the water in the turbine room is a result of corroded/leaky cooling pipes. There are contaminants found in the water which are created from a part found in the turbine room. Furthermore, the turbine room is a good distance from the main reactor building, so it's pretty unlikely that water from a reactor breach would reach that room.
by Hank Scorpio 3/26/2011 7:24:59 AM
So is there some sort of opinion filtering going on here? How do I participate properly?
by Hank Scorpio 3/26/2011 7:25:00 AM
I currently live in Japan with my family. A couple of years ago I taught English to engineers at a nuclear power station in Japan. The individual engineers struck me as very smart, capable and decent people. However, what I witnessed of the system, with its cosy relationship between the government and power companies, a desire to relax safety checks, the employment of large numbers of temporary laborers for maintenance work during outages, etc, was profoundly unsettling. I now hear that at least one of my ex-students is scheduled to take their turn at Fukushima.
by Rob 3/26/2011 7:25:02 AM
Reporters asking tougher questions...they will cut for weather any second now.
by gabe 3/26/2011 7:25:16 AM
@borrrden Why wouldn't people spend at least part of the day outside, given that it was outside the evacuation zone. People would go on living like nothing happened. No one was told to go inside so far outside the plant. We still have readings of 100 uSv /hour 30km from the plant, that would be 2.4 mSv / day, and it's been 12 days already. And that's just where they have readings.
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:25:33 AM
so very true gabe
by ids 3/26/2011 7:25:38 AM
once again "wont pose immediate threat" WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?!
by ids 3/26/2011 7:27:11 AM
@Jojo First of all, how many infants go outside without their parents going outside? Please show me any figures you have stating that it has remained 100 uSv per hour for a full 12 days 30 km from the plant.
by borrrden 3/26/2011 7:27:39 AM
And if they have 100 uSv /hour just from air samplings, how many have eaten contaminated food/milk/water before the government tested it? Again in Iitate village YESTERDAY they found 1,170,00 Bq / kg of Iodine in soil, 163,000 Bq /kg of Cesium.
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:27:58 AM
Wow, radiation is not high our standards are just too stringent???
by gabe 3/26/2011 7:28:19 AM
That article about the infants is crazy. The worse this gets, the less everyone covers it. Even the Reuters liveblog is now gone. WHY ISN'T ANYONE COVERING THIS STORY???
by sgl 3/26/2011 7:28:23 AM
Sorry paraphrasing the Edano press conference.
by gabe 3/26/2011 7:29:31 AM
@sgl - The story will be covered heavily again when things go further south.
by Hank Scorpio 3/26/2011 7:29:46 AM
They still would if it wasnt for Libya
by ids 3/26/2011 7:29:48 AM
@borrrden We have Japan's Nuclear Safety Technology Center performing a simulation; given they know wind conditions and radiation levels at the plant they have some pretty good data for at least "realistic" assumptions. And we have seen massive radiation at least 30 km from the plant today. You think it realistic that 0 infants in that huge area were exposed to 100 mSv that last 12 days?
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:30:02 AM
So now that the PM effectively has control of the situation, will he decide to release the gas to reduce pressure?
by ids 3/26/2011 7:31:14 AM
@Jojo I am not in a position to say what is realistic or not, and neither are you.
by borrrden 3/26/2011 7:31:35 AM
Check out the data: www.mext.go.jp Look on p.3, spinach on their last test 40 km from the nuke plant (!) had 1,110,000 bq/kg of iodine, 1,500,000 bq/kg of cesium. And Tokyo was worried about 100 bq/L in the water.
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:31:47 AM
@Hank Scorpio Sorry Hank - I was just heading for a nap. Tomorrow I'll add some moderators when I figure out how to do it.
by George Gibb 3/26/2011 7:32:18 AM
@Hank - Doesn't the infant stuff qualify as going "further south"?
by sgl 3/26/2011 7:32:54 AM
@borrrden It's a very safe bet that some infants have been exposed to 100 mSv. I'm going to believe Japan's own Nuclear Safety Technology Center and Edano himself.
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:33:00 AM
@Jojo - Considering that the main gate readings have consistently stayed somewhere around 200 uSv/hour, and that the gate is 1km away from the source of the radiation, I'd be sincerely surprised if there were any areas which sustained such a high dose in the 2 weeks since the accident. There were a few measurements which were extremely high, and I don't discount them, but I do point out that there can be small areas which consistently receive a higher dose while other areas receive low, intermittent doses.
I was also. Thanks for everything George. Tomorrow won't even know the place :) Cheers
by Jim Carver 3/26/2011 7:34:48 AM
@sgl - Nah, the only dead babies that make the news are abortions.
by Hank Scorpio 3/26/2011 7:35:09 AM
Oops, on that same link www.mext.go.jp on p.5 they are measuring 103 uSv / hour. 30 KM FROM THE PLANT! Are you saying that radiation is 200 uSv /hour a the plant and drops to 100 uSv/Hour, 30 KM away? NOT POSSIBLE. Also, radiation has spiked into the hundreds of mSv, as workers have been pulled away and then came back.
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:35:13 AM
@Jojo - Calm down. We're on the same side. I'm saying that with the average main gate readings, it's hard to fathom such high doses so far away. Either TEPCOs readings are faulty/bullsh*t, or those readings are outliers and consistent readings will show lower doses.
by Hank Scorpio 3/26/2011 7:36:37 AM
@Jojo You can't make that statement, because now you are talking about two different things. There are soil readings (and the resulting food contamination) and there are atmospheric readings, which Hank was referring to.
by borrrden 3/26/2011 7:37:52 AM
@Hank Scorpio Tepco has to be bull. How can you get only 1/2 the radiation readings 30 km away? Makes no sense.
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:38:47 AM
@Jojo Wind?
by gabe 3/26/2011 7:39:17 AM
@Jojo - Wind patterns could explain a lot. If you compare that one reading to the rest, it's an outlier.
by Hank Scorpio 3/26/2011 7:39:30 AM
@you Plus the 100 uSv per hour you were referring to were calculated SOIL readings, while the 200 uSv / hr at the gate are ATMOSPHERIC readings.
by borrrden 3/26/2011 7:40:17 AM
@borrrden Right. They measured the air next to the spinach. The air readings were 103 uSv/ hour next to the elevated readings of the spinach itself.
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:40:28 AM
@Hank Scorpio Sure, the readings are all over the place. But isn't that pretty unlucky that of the huge area to cover, they happened to test in the maximum spot? It's not an outlier, though in the area directly NW of the plant is at it's highest concentration.
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:41:58 AM
@Jojo - Page 5 is soil readings, not air readings. The uSv/hour and contaminant levels of I-131 and Cs-137 are accumulated. That particular reading appears to be taken from a particular hot spot which has gotten a heavier dose than most, probably because it lies within the center of a particular wind pattern.
by Hank Scorpio 3/26/2011 7:42:57 AM
Here is a neat page. It has compiled the radiation data (atmospheric) and plotted it into graphs and google map pins. radiation.goo.ne.jp
by borrrden 3/26/2011 7:42:58 AM
@borrrden It didn't specify. All of the uSv/ hour I have been seeing were air measurements, everything else was in Bq /kg or Bg/L or Bq/m3.
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:43:18 AM
@Jojo Fair enough, but because it didn't specify, neither of us can claim to be right...
by borrrden 3/26/2011 7:43:59 AM
@borrrden OK. In any case, 100 uSv /hour of soil measurements will give you the same dosage. It's still 100 uSv. Or, 1 mSv per 10 hours.
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:44:55 AM
@Jojo Soil measurements cannot be applied that way, how many people are eating soil? Some of it will be absorbed into food products but not all.
by borrrden 3/26/2011 7:45:28 AM
@borrrden That's not correct. A Sv is a dose, the effect of ingestion/inhalation/environment has already been factored in. 1Sv = 1Sv.
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:46:19 AM
@borrden - It will still emit beta and gamma radiation though. It would be dangerous to stand near that soil. Well, as dangerous as 2.2~mSv/day would be.
by Hank Scorpio 3/26/2011 7:46:28 AM
@Hank Scorpio Are you sure about that? Just because something contains that much power doesn't mean you will absorb all of it by standing near it (because it emits it in every direction).
by borrrden 3/26/2011 7:48:38 AM
Also seeing readings today at 12 uSv/hour 24km South of the plant. 10 uSv/ hour 40 km West-NW. And 103 uSv/hour 30 km NW.
by Jojo 3/26/2011 7:50:19 AM
@Jojo Are you just using the same number again? Or did you find something else?