Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 86

@borrden judging by the linked discussion on arstechnica. Also, NHK etc. reported the level of 400 mSv/h in R3 yesterday as 10000 times normal and are reporting the level in R2 as 1 million times normal. You do the math.
by Sims 3/27/2011 10:32:36 AM

@Sims: you're right, my bad. Note: 1Sv/h is 1000 mSv/h not MSv/h (milli, not Mega !)
by Jo Lindien 3/27/2011 10:32:53 AM

Would that be 40Sv/hour?\
by Hank Scorpio 3/27/2011 10:33:50 AM

@Sims Do you have a source for that? I remember hearing the 400 number as well, but that was a week ago.
by borrrden 3/27/2011 10:33:54 AM

@Hank Scorpio If it were that high then they would be almost certainly dead within 15 minutes.
by borrrden 3/27/2011 10:37:53 AM

@borrrden - Just did the math based upon what he said. I'd be shocked if that were correct.
by Hank Scorpio 3/27/2011 10:40:50 AM

@borrden It's not in the environment (very thankfully) but some (hopefully very small) water sample they took.. also pretty much all of it is from I-134, which is very short-lived, if they can stop more of it from being produced. Got most of the info from the discussion here - arstechnica.com which is referencing a recent JAIF release.
by sims 3/27/2011 10:41:38 AM

TBH, hoping someone made a typo somewhere when publishing those number, because they look pretty ridiculous.
by sims 3/27/2011 10:42:13 AM

Side note: I think they said the amount was 10 Million times higher than was normal in the reactor, not 10 million times higher than the previously measured 400...
by Katrin 3/27/2011 10:44:16 AM

source: uk.reuters.com
by Katrin 3/27/2011 10:44:39 AM

EU WANTS to rise limits on food etc... this is dramtatic
by hans 3/27/2011 10:44:59 AM

@Katrin - I know, that's why I only added 2 zeroes. 400x100=40,000 mSv/hr=40 Sv/hour.
by Hank Scorpio 3/27/2011 10:45:25 AM

@hans Link?
by NiteSpawn 3/27/2011 10:45:36 AM

@Hank Scorpio But you forget, the number they are referring to is not sieverts, but becquerels. Those two don't have a 1-to-1 relationship.
by borrrden 3/27/2011 10:46:30 AM

@borrrden - Good point. I don't know enough about it. ArsTechica discussion is fascinating.
by Hank Scorpio 3/27/2011 10:48:05 AM

But in any case, the substance most of the dose rate is from has a very short half-life (<1h as of www.wolframalpha.com ), which means it's going to go away very quickly, if they can somehow stop more of it from being produced.
by sims 3/27/2011 10:48:15 AM

@hans: from what I heard, this is not related to nuclear plants; this is to allow more industrialists to irradiate food instead of using pasteurization to kill bacterium
by Jo Lindien 3/27/2011 10:48:37 AM

@sims: replacing sea water with fresh one will stop the production of Cl-38; but it won't help stopping irradiated water leak, just fix one symptom.
by Jo Lindien 3/27/2011 10:53:10 AM

@Jo Lindien ..... Consumer Protection Minister Margaret Conrad (SPD) protested against the plans of the EU, the cesium-limits food imports from Japan raise. A similar fast-track the European Union should, according to Conroy on Saturday to take effect.
by hans 3/27/2011 10:54:36 AM

@NiteSpawn translate.google.com
by hans 3/27/2011 10:55:18 AM

austrian scientist warns. Now it is important that you try the (sometimes high-level radioactive, note) to keep water in the reactor inside. I think it should be possible, "said Rauch. Not good it is when water vapor rises into the atmosphere. In particular, the release of cesium-137, the former director would be the Vienna Atomic Energy Institute, according to a marker, because the isotope has a half-life of more than 30 years has... derstandard.at
by hans 3/27/2011 10:55:18 AM

@hans link?
by NiteSpawn 3/27/2011 10:55:19 AM

@hans Thanks
by NiteSpawn 3/27/2011 10:56:02 AM

Important to try to keep the water inside the reactor.....um.....captain obvious?
by borrrden 3/27/2011 10:57:10 AM

@borrrden google translate not that good!!
by hans 3/27/2011 10:57:43 AM

@hans There is not much wrong with the translation, it just seems like a very obvious thing to be saying.....
by borrrden 3/27/2011 10:58:13 AM

@borrrden yep. scientist are in a million show. they have 4 answers, pls choose one.
by hans 3/27/2011 10:59:15 AM

@borrrden - Just found a guy who agreed with the 40Sv/hour computation at AT. arstechnica.com
by Hank Scorpio 3/27/2011 11:02:16 AM

@hans: cannot find anything about this in French press ... which is strange... but I found a assertion that France has asked to change Euratom limits to match OMS/FAO ones, which are higher, that may be related to M. Conrad protest (though I did not find any official document about this request from France).
by Jo Lindien 3/27/2011 11:08:49 AM

@Jo Lindien this is really strange. i think the eu realize that problem is going bigger and bigger here. lets see...
by hans 3/27/2011 11:13:56 AM

japans exports. a dramatic situation. translate.google.com
by hans 3/27/2011 11:20:52 AM

Anatomy of a Boiling Water Reactor (BWR) -
26-page PDF file - It describes in non-scientific language and drawings the functions of all parts of the reactor so you can get an idea of what is going on inside the buildings. www.ucsusa.org
by Miles 3/27/2011 11:21:15 AM

Those guys at ArsTechica also seem to think the I-134 (halflife 53 minutes) concentration can also only indicate fission. TEPCO is apparently claiming it's a result of the fuel cladding melting and two posters have called bullshit on that.
by Hank Scorpio 3/27/2011 11:21:44 AM

@Hans: in France, I-134 presence is monitored and it's presence of I-134 is considered to show that there are broken fuel pellets in the reactor: "presence of I134 in the primary coolant show a large sealing defect then dissemination of part of the fuel in the primary coolant" (traduction by me from EDF report about Cattenom #3 reactor problem in 2000/2001 www.wise-paris.org )
by Jo Lindien 3/27/2011 11:33:17 AM

sorry, was @Hank ...
by Jo Lindien 3/27/2011 11:34:28 AM

Fission on #2 admitted in press - search.japantimes.co.jp
by Miles 3/27/2011 11:41:01 AM

There are some Sunday readings here english.aljazeera.net apologies if I am repeating what you already know I havent had tme to read through the posts
by elainekirk 3/27/2011 11:41:47 AM

@Jo Linden: I imagine it would show that there are broken fuel pellets in a *running* reactor though. It's primary method of generation is fission of U-235 (via a very short-lived intermediate Te isotope). If anyone knows/can come up with a way for it to be generated in those quantities by anything other than fission, I'm all ears.
by sims 3/27/2011 11:43:20 AM

NHK commentator earlier today (27.3.): All pools/reactors need constant water cooling, due to Loss of Coolant. Now done with temporary power/pumps. However, the reactor and/or turbine is leaking water w/ highly active content from the fission fuel to the turbine hall. This water prevents reconnecting power to plant pumps and upgrading to stable cooling. Thus, they are trying to pump the radioactive water from turbine halls to the primary cooling towers. Question: What happens when they need to keep on pumping water, it leaks and the cooling towers have filled up to their maximum water capacity? Nobody knows...
by vasra 3/27/2011 11:43:52 AM

@Kat I wonder if he feels the same way with these new level figures today. It keeps moving closer to the line of not even being able to attack it with on site human resources.
by gumba 3/27/2011 11:45:06 AM

@Miles : hmmm so they cannot pump out the radioactive water.
by Matsuoko 3/27/2011 11:49:48 AM

Any informations about continuation of the work at the plants? According to german TV (N24 & n-tv) the workers had to be evacuated. But that is not necesssary the truth. They tell it nearly every day in the morning & to me they don't sound like a competent source. Today they repeat it for about 5 hours unchanged. So either they just estimate it due to the messages of radiation in the turbine building or the workers have been evacuated in the meantime, as this doesn't take 5 hours. NHK reports, that work is slowed down due to the radiation.
by Max 3/27/2011 11:49:50 AM

@gumba To me, this is a huge problem in getting things cleaned up - the human health risks. Chernobyl tried to solve it by using thousands of workers rotating in very short shifts.
by Miles 3/27/2011 11:50:22 AM