Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 152

@Jim Carver Yes, that's been obvious for a while now. My favourite little visual was from someone here: "It's like a duck, all calm and unruffled on the surface but underneath paddling like mad."
by radioguy 3/28/2011 2:52:48 PM

@radioguy Good one.
by Jim Carver 3/28/2011 2:53:35 PM

@Sin: Might even be that the construction is so complicated that the water level is a completely unimportant measurement that means nothing in this situation. Just some data, so they can release something. Kinda hilarious.
by Jeff 3/28/2011 2:54:11 PM

BREAKING NEWS: Plutonium detected in soil at Fukushima nuke plant (23:52)
Not sure what to make of this. As per kyodo ticker
by NHK Listener 3/28/2011 2:54:47 PM

Where is Katz watching the press conference?! It is not on NHK here in Japan....
by borrrden 3/28/2011 2:55:28 PM

Apparantly it's Pu-238, Pu-239 and Pu-240
by es 3/28/2011 2:55:48 PM

@NHK Listener The significance of the plutonium means at least some is k
by marie rich 3/28/2011 2:55:54 PM

@all Their offices were so badly damaged from the explosions that they can't even get to the blueprints and enginerring data. They had to contact vendors to get critical info about their own plant.
by Jim Carver 3/28/2011 2:56:18 PM

@NHK Listener The thing to me about that discovery just after they started testing for Pu is: How many samples did they have to take to detect it. One random sample? Five?
by radioguy 3/28/2011 2:56:20 PM

yes, where is Katz watching the live press conference. Its not on www3.nhk.or.jp
by Yuri 3/28/2011 2:56:27 PM

@borrrden Try here: iwakamiyasumi.com
by es 3/28/2011 2:56:42 PM

@all-embarrassed to ask this - but where exactly would the plutonium be coming from?
by fiona 3/28/2011 2:56:52 PM

@marie: Couldn't it still come from the SPF? I thought they also had those MOX things in there? Still hoping for the reactors to be intact...
by Jeff 3/28/2011 2:57:05 PM

@fiona MOX fuels is in 3.
by Jim Carver 3/28/2011 2:57:27 PM

regarding pool levels... just guessing.. they do not have acurate measuring devices working, they are probaly guessing to a point... but also read an article that the pools have an air componient seal to increase the sealing pressure, but it would be unlikly that they have any gas/air lines still in operation to the seal.. don't know how true the seal contruction design is... i would think it would be more like a swimming pool so you don't have the worry of a leak.. all penetration would be above the fill line, but there are many reasons that they could be designed this way.. the person writting the article may have confused air blocks at the doors and other building penetration... has anyone seen much on design spec for the contaiment buildings and pools
by fitter 3/28/2011 2:57:34 PM

@Jeff No chance....no MOX rods in the pool.
by borrrden 3/28/2011 2:57:39 PM

@fiona Inside the core of 3 or in the spent fuel rods.
by radioguy 3/28/2011 2:57:44 PM

@fitter: We were talking about reactor water levels
by Jeff 3/28/2011 2:57:56 PM

@NHK Listener Sorry significance is that at least some is leaking forom reactor 3; the mox fuel.. also, with Deans help last night (early this morning, i guess), I think figured out why they were looking for chlorine isotope.
by marie rich 3/28/2011 2:58:03 PM

@ Jim, I read that last night and wondered why a company did not have blueprints etc. on a computer network these days? Something like that should have been on remote back ups and offsite servers. That is the norm. Keep critical data on servers in multiple locations including one far divorced from your local climate/region. For just these reasons.
by Nancy 3/28/2011 2:58:18 PM

@borrrden: Sure? I thought there was MOX fuel in the pools. You have a source?
by Jeff 3/28/2011 2:58:34 PM

@borrrden They never removed MOX units since the 32 were put in? Then core.
by radioguy 3/28/2011 2:58:38 PM

@radioguy No, they were only put in less than half a year ago.
by borrrden 3/28/2011 2:58:54 PM

@Nancy: Those plants were built when there weren't any computers :p
by Jeff 3/28/2011 2:58:58 PM

Oh right. September.
by radioguy 3/28/2011 2:59:11 PM

OPINION @Jeff that would be my guess...but I know that they have the best nuclear damage control experts in the world advising and overseeing the operation. The US alone has minute details gleaned from satellites and highly sophisticated monitoring devices which they are sitting on.The world has a huge incentive to ensure this situation is brought under control, or at least manage the PR of it and keep us in ignorance as long as they can because when the severity of the situation comes out the consequences will have disastrous results for the world economy. I believe it is a sham, to keep the public guessing. Just think about what happens when the world's third largest economy in the world collapses.
by Sin 3/28/2011 2:59:19 PM

@Nancy I know, it is so, god I can't think of a word. Bumbling.
by Jim Carver 3/28/2011 2:59:29 PM

@Sin: Yeah but I strongly doubt the US wouldn't withdraw their troops if they know it would get really bad soon. I'm mean of course it's very bad, but it might be containable, still.
by Jeff 3/28/2011 3:00:17 PM

The chlorineisotope is significant to them because when radiation of high energy (like gamma) hits sea water it forms this isotope. If it's in the sea water, they're very probably getting run-off from the plant to the sea
by marie rich 3/28/2011 3:00:20 PM

Interesting article published in the Asia Sentinel: "Radiation and You" www.asiasentinel.com QUOTE: "3) Uncontrolled radioactive emissions until today. As the Fukushima reactors use MOX fuel rods which include plutonium, it is highly probable that plutonium, the most poisonous substance known to man, has been released into the atmosphere.

We have been told by experts that plutonium is almost impossible to detect in small quantities but no less deadly. Will this area, or even Tokyo itself, become uninhabitable? If one factors in plutonium, we have to change the scale by which we view nuclear accidents. Fukushima could in fact become more deadly than Chernobyl."
by James Ward 3/28/2011 3:00:38 PM

Another possibility for partial meltdowns is liquid nitrogen injection, this was done with a Leningrad RMBK in 1975, one of the lesser known Soviet events. www.nytimes.com
by kgriff 3/28/2011 3:01:22 PM

@James Ward That's true except for detection. It's not that hard to detect.
by Jim Carver 3/28/2011 3:01:56 PM

@Jeff yes either reactor core or spf, but from #3
by marie rich 3/28/2011 3:02:01 PM

@JimCarver, the chugging phenomenon goes something like this. You have a subcritical (cannot fission) mass that is probably divided into smaller particles like pieces of decomposed fuel rod. Then due to physical movement that could be caused by steam or melting, for example, the nuclear configuration changes such that a small area of sustained criticality occurs with increase in radiation. Then the mass moves again and stops being critical. It is an on-again, off-again phenomenon where physical and temperature changes in a moving mass can cause it to cycle between criticality and non-criticality. At least that is my layperson's understanding.
by Sky 3/28/2011 3:02:07 PM

I am in network security and Nancy is correct in her statement about the redundancy issue in computer systems.
by Sin 3/28/2011 3:02:08 PM

@ Jeff, yes I know this. But critical data like that should have been scanned in by the late 90's. This is standard, most companies did this, ie: critical company documents were scanned and put into the corporate computer data.
by Nancy 3/28/2011 3:02:13 PM

You can follow press conference here iwakamiyasumi.com (only in Japanese, sorry)
by estacion 3/28/2011 3:02:29 PM

@radioguy that's right
by marie rich 3/28/2011 3:02:34 PM

@Jim Carver, Dean explained that effect the other day. I remember vaguely that water in the reactor begins to oscillate between steam and liquid, uncovering and covering the fuel rods periodically which could cause periodic criticality. I am sorry I cannot explain it any better.
by Peter Melzer 3/28/2011 3:02:50 PM

It would be critical that blueprints and schematics were on computer since all engineering/architecture moved to CAD by the late 90's.
by Nancy 3/28/2011 3:02:52 PM

@Sky K Got it. Thanks.
by Jim Carver 3/28/2011 3:03:06 PM

And yet they stopped including Cl-38 levels after that one report. Maybe they're trying to imply that those short-life isotopes were only found that one time. It all fall in with the "partial meltdown happened in the past and not going to happen again" line.
by radioguy 3/28/2011 3:03:10 PM

And yet they stopped including Cl-38 levels after that one report. Maybe they're trying to imply that those short-life isotopes were only found that one time. It all fall in with the "partial meltdown happened in the past and not going to happen again" line.
by radioguy 3/28/2011 3:03:18 PM