Japan Earthquake | Page 1484

  • the NYT article on whistleblowers better copied. Maybe.: www.nytimes.com
    by Mart 6/3/2011 6:54:11 AM

  • @Meretisa lol ok have to take these kids out now........bbl
    by Angie 6/3/2011 6:54:12 AM

  • @Mart Good information Mart. Thanks for doing the research.
    by Reed 6/3/2011 6:57:26 AM

  • Regarding TEPCO needing a location to transfer all that tainted water in the basements........might ship it over to the swimming pools of all those TEPCO execs and upper managers !!!! They keep telling the people of Fukushima that its NOT THAT dangerous........
    by wtm 6/3/2011 7:18:01 AM

  • This link is to Arnie Gundersen's expert testimony in Federal Court about issues related to the Fermi Unit 3 license application. His CV and some of his publications are listed at the end. This is from 2009 so there's been plenty of time for those who have been saying his resume is inflated to challenge his court accepted credentials, which even after all his other court and official commission and agency testimony no one has yet done. Until other evidence comes along I'm going with this; he may not always be right, but I'd guess he's honest. The blog linked here earlier that claimed to have the 'facts' about him may be less so. www.beyondnuclear.org
    by Mart 6/3/2011 7:23:00 AM

  • www.heatingoil.com

    Why does the harbor at Daiichi not look like this ?
    A multi-billion dollar company can buy a supertanker.

    by Reed via Heatingoil 6/3/2011 7:31:26 AM

  • Wow, did you see this today EQ?
    09:05 JST 03 Jun 2011 37.3N 143.7E 10 km M5.9 Fukushima-ken Oki
    www.jma.go.jp

    by estacion via Jma.go.jp 6/3/2011 7:46:11 AM

  • @Reed I really do wonder why--has anyone seen a credible reason given why it wouldn't work? I was picturing the kind of giant fuel and water tanks the army flies in for wars and disasters, but @elainekirk wondered about safety and space constraints and she's probably right, but why NOT supertankers? They can be working on sequestering it SOMEWHERE while they continue to not figure out what to do with it--any sealed place is better than where it is. Their new tank system, including the underground one that won't be ready even by their estimates until mid-August, will only hold 1/10 of the water they've already got, to say nothing of the amount they'll add to between now and August, and thereafter. Not a permanent solution by any means, but might it be something do-able, and sooner than their faux 'road map'? I think all that water running off and soaking in just horrifies everybody.
    by Mart 6/3/2011 7:48:15 AM

  • @wtm How about Ann Coulter's hot tub?
    by bojack54 6/3/2011 7:52:42 AM

  • Of course the nuclear goons are going to try to tear Arne Gunderson down. He's telling the truth, and he knows what he's talking about. When they come after you like that, Arne, you know you're getting to them. I've been watching them try to assassinate people's characters for 25 years. Their targets are my heroes.
    by bojack54 6/3/2011 7:56:09 AM

  • @Mart I seriously doubt that the small port of Daiichi may hold a supertank such those.
    by estacion 6/3/2011 8:00:43 AM

  • @Mart The fact that there's 105,100 tons of water leaking into the ground at a dangerous risk of overflowing directly into the ocean...while a national company waits upon a foreign company to fabricate, ship, install, and start-up a facility to decontaminate said water without a back-up plan such as a supertanker, just amazes me.
    by Reed 6/3/2011 8:01:46 AM

  • @estacion If the nation of Japan can build an airport on the ocean, they can build a bridge out to a supertanker, no?
    by Reed 6/3/2011 8:04:33 AM

  • @Reed By the time the bridge was constructed the water leak would have hapened.
    by estacion 6/3/2011 8:15:27 AM

  • Okay, I'll trade you one supertanker for 5 shallower draft tankers. Is the concept workable? The Dutch move huge amounts of water all over the place in huge tubes--give them a call, I'm sure they'd be happy to help, and I'd feel much better about them than I do about relying on Areva and the others who have volunteered to process the water for astronomical sums, to be accomplished at some not quite specified date in the future. (I've come to think of Areva as the all purpose company, help you plan your disaster, help you fuel it, and help you do the clean up when it all melts down.
    by Mart 6/3/2011 8:15:56 AM

  • @Mart Bien dit!
    by Reed 6/3/2011 8:18:54 AM

  • @Reed Entendez-vous dans les campagnes, mugir ces féroces soldats ?
    by Mart 6/3/2011 8:23:31 AM

  • Shipping high radioactivity liquids are is very risky enterprise. Move to where? IMHO establish precedents of such shipments is the global suicide.
    by estacion 6/3/2011 8:24:20 AM

  • @Reed The super tanker plan is not feasible. Super tankers are extremely expensive and you need smaller tankers to carry the cargo to the super tankers because you can't place a super tanker just anywhere you want. You're talking about massive vessels that won't fit in most harbours around the world. Just as an illustration, back in the 80's there were only 2 shipyards in Europe that could repair super tankers. Plus, due to high radiation emissions near the NPP the ships need to be decontaminated all the time. The 10,000 tons barge is the best possible plan, I'm afraid. And they have one on site already.
    by Pedro Jesus 6/3/2011 8:29:06 AM

  • I certainly wouldn't envisage shipping it anywhere. I would hope it might be one thing to consider to temporarily hold the contaminated water in sealed places with slosh baffles while better and more permanent solutions for reprocessing are found. I just think waiting until perfect solutions are found or industrial processing is ramped up means that meanwhile hundreds and hundreds of thousands of tons of radioactive water just runs off onto the land and into the sea and to prevent that, it seems to me, it's worth taking more vigorous action than is being 'road mapped' right now?
    by Mart 6/3/2011 8:29:30 AM

  • 09:29 JST 03 Jun 2011 36.9N 141.1E 50 km M3.5 Fukushima-ken Oki
    11:05 JST 03 Jun 2011 37.1N 140.8E 10 km M3.0 Fukushima-ken Hamadori
    16:07 JST 03 Jun 2011 36.9N 141.2E 20 km M3.9 Fukushima-ken Oki
    www.jma.go.jp
    by estacion 6/3/2011 8:36:36 AM

  • @Pedro Jesus OK, but there's still the issue of 744 tons of water/day flowing into the plant...if not ships, then where does one put the water as soon as capacity is exceeded? Perhaps they need bladders floating offshore ? www.spec-net.com.au

    by Reed via Spec-net.au 6/3/2011 8:38:19 AM

  • Floating storage units: en.wikipedia.org Tanker size and price categories: en.wikipedia.org
    by Mart 6/3/2011 8:39:07 AM

  • www.eia.gov "Most existing gas storage in the United States is in depleted natural gas or oil fields that are close to consumption centers. Conversion of a field from production to storage duty takes advantage of existing wells, gathering systems, and pipeline connections. Depleted oil and gas reservoirs are the most commonly used underground storage sites because of their wide availability"
    by Lethbridgean 6/3/2011 8:47:12 AM

  • @Mart Brilliant! TY for the link to the prices of tankers.
    Perhaps $58+ million will be a deal in comparison to the bad PR in the long term.
    Those FSOs look like a good possibility as well....
    "Floating storage and offloading units (FSO) are used worldwide by the offshore oil industry to receive oil from nearby platforms and store it until it can be offloaded onto oil tankers.[111] A similar system, the floating production storage and offloading unit (FPSO), has the ability to process the product while it is onboard..." en.wikipedia.org
    Thanks again for the information.
    by Reed 6/3/2011 8:47:53 AM

  • Water is easier then natural gas to re-inject into the spent oil reserviours as it has a very high/large static head of the weight of the water. Small 100 hp pumps would be the only force needed.
    by Lethbridgean 6/3/2011 8:51:27 AM

  • Flame away I am going to bed.
    by Lethbridgean 6/3/2011 8:51:49 AM

  • @Lethbridgean So am I. Sleep well.
    by Pedro Jesus 6/3/2011 8:52:15 AM

  • @Lethbridgean No one's flaming here! I think it sounds like a good idea if not porous materials, etc. Would there be such reservoirs in the area that would be close enough to reach or are you envisioning moving the mountain of water to Muhammad, so to speak? I have no vested interest in any particular solutions, like all of us, I just want solutions that are real and do the job.
    by Mart 6/3/2011 8:59:04 AM

  • Chinese minister recommends independent nuclear safety regulator in wake of Fukushima
    www.washingtonpost.com
    by Reed 6/3/2011 9:10:15 AM

  • Animal up on top of the metal decking again, very casual, has anyone figured out what manner of beast he is? Quite a handsome black and gray badger-y sort of coat. Sort of like a thin badger with long legs. In other words, nothing like a badger at all.
    by Mart 6/3/2011 9:18:47 AM

  • @Mart I think there's some general agreement the small furry mammal is the aptly named tanuki - this is from the wiki entry: Tanuki (狸 or タヌキ?) is the common Japanese name for the Japanese raccoon dog (Nyctereutes procyonoides viverrinus). They have been part of Japanese folklore since ancient times. The legendary tanuki is reputed to be mischievous and jolly, a master of disguise and shapeshifting, but somewhat gullible and absent-minded.
    by es 6/3/2011 9:47:06 AM

  • I now recall people using 'tanuki' a while ago but I didn't get what it meant. This is indeed the beast I saw, I believe: www.canids.org en.wikipedia.org
    by Mart 6/3/2011 9:47:16 AM

  • @es Thanks! I'd just figured it out. He/she is a very handsome creature. Looked very calm and comfortable in his activities. I certainly wish him well and wish he'd get out of there...
    by Mart 6/3/2011 9:48:48 AM

  • And more on the Tanuki/Raccoon Dog: www.canids.org
    by Mart 6/3/2011 9:50:38 AM

  • Good morning everybody Manju fast breeder with problems ? translate.google.com
    by elainekirk 6/3/2011 9:57:22 AM

  • @Mart. I agree. Very attractive creature. Thanks for the links.
    by es 6/3/2011 9:57:55 AM

  • TBS cam is on the move zoom and pan
    by WolfDK 6/3/2011 10:13:17 AM

  • @elainekirk G'morning. Thanks for the Monju update. Aargh. I broadly understand TEPCO and NISA as saying that the use of an hydraulic jack (to monitor the oil pressure guage) has damaged a cylinder on the emergency diesel generator of the (Monju) fast-breeder reactor. The report pertaining to the nature of the cause of the damage seems to blame a fault in the manufacturing of the cylinder between February to May 1987 - a lead componant weakened the strength of the graphite cylinder. So from your reading of that press release, does Fukushima Dai-ichi Unit 2's emergency generator have the same cylinder fault?
    by es 6/3/2011 10:24:11 AM

  • @es that was a tough interpertation.... not sure what they were saying... but it does sound as though they may have been sold a inferior porduct... the vast array of "counterfiet components in all markets"" is well documented (an a major problem in industriy today).... seems that some of the verbage was in reference to that ... could you tell
    by fitter 6/3/2011 10:28:38 AM

  • @fitter Yeah, I sensed that too, and I can see it must be a huge problem for industry. General gist (and yes I struggled with the translation, so question its accuracy) - not our fault, and this is not the norm.
    by es 6/3/2011 10:35:23 AM

  • @es "conterfiet componenents" are a major problem.... I spent two years inspecting high pressure systems after the Surry NPP boilerfeed water line breack in 1985.. It is such a problem again with the "global and Internet sales" that many companies are now having to rewrite and institute newer programs, these still will not find all the "false items an papers" but its the best everyone cando as long as people are out there forging components...
    by fitter 6/3/2011 10:41:13 AM

  • @es so glad you have some techi replies @all thanks I myself am ok at digging these docs out and knowing if they seem worthy of posting but then I am lost because techi is not my field
    by elainekirk 6/3/2011 10:43:06 AM

  • @es www.washingtonpost.com this is a typical "non-saftey" issue article.... but that shipment could just as easily have been relief vavles , EDG for anywhere etc... had 10 pounds of a product cost the comapny i was working for over a half mil... and because of tort laws... even with the documents that sounds(!!!) like TEPCO had its hard to recoup your loses... and the offending parties are hard to touch because its international..
    by fitter 6/3/2011 10:48:35 AM

  • @elainekirk That's modesty talking - you're doing a marvellous and thoroughly techie job!
    by es 6/3/2011 10:48:55 AM

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