Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1851

@ Lilly and Peter.. the images of a standard fuel element shows the spacers and i think the spacer areas have a cover plate at the spacer elevations.. not sure what it looks like when the spacer cover is taken apart tho. I thought it would be a good discussion point for us
by dean 7/7/2011 12:41:57 PM

@dean I should be able to get a bit more detail out of the originals. I found one rod image in my stash that had pointed ends. The end of that one is clearly sealed shut. I think that rules it out as being conduit for electrical since if they did end conduit they would do so with a cap, not a seal smooth end like that. This seems to raise all sorts of questions about 3's pool again
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 12:42:08 PM

@lillymunster , dean, the commenter on the physics forum did not seem to recognize it. Was it someone else? Since the assemblies in the pool look fairly intact, what does that tell us?
by Peter Melzer 7/7/2011 12:42:40 PM

@dean I have an image of a spacer end. What I don't have is what any other spacers down the assembly would look like.
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 12:42:57 PM

This is the caption for the physics forumn @ Peter
Above the links the page says:
"A picture taken from the concrete pumping vehicle, the spent fuel pool, Unit3, Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station
(pictured on April 14, 2011)"

The picture to the left I cannot recognize as having anything to do with unit 3 at all, nor indeed, a spent fuel pool. I am not sure this photo is even from the vicinity of unit 3.

The picture to the right appears to me as something that could very well be from unit 3, however that would be from the north end of the building, not at the spent fuel pool, which is situated in the south end of the buiding

I wonder if anyone might have been more successful than I, in an effort to locate the motives of these two photos?

For comparison, here's how the roof floor of unit 3 with its SFP (the greeny area) looked in Tepco's skyview from April 15th:
by dean 7/7/2011 12:43:31 PM

@ Peter, read the ASK.COM article,, it poses some new things that I hadn't run into.. like the interaction from explosions, debris from one reactor explosion landing on the adjacent reactor.. etc..
by dean 7/7/2011 12:44:53 PM

That is the edge of the SFP. The textured edge and that ladder looking structure are found in other SFP images. Dean, do you have any ideas where some images of burn through might be located?
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 12:45:07 PM

the other one pinned.. working on reactors and sfp UNDERWATER.. this is a whole area we haven't discussed where divers dive in and do extensive repairs and work
by dean 7/7/2011 12:45:39 PM

@dean , so that person did not identify the piece. If there was a way to ascertain that this thing was not thrown from the SFP, it could have come only from one other location! Great find!
by Peter Melzer 7/7/2011 12:45:46 PM

ty Peter.. when I found it .. I thought.. THIS IS A GOLDMINE FIND...
by dean 7/7/2011 12:46:14 PM

I will try to find one lilly
by dean 7/7/2011 12:46:23 PM

rod close up image
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 12:47:18 PM

@dean, I can't find the ask.com link, ;)

by Peter Melzer 7/7/2011 12:47:48 PM

its up on top of the pinned articles
by dean 7/7/2011 12:48:27 PM

@dean, did not look up, am reading it now, ty.

by Peter Melzer 7/7/2011 12:50:47 PM

Found this, slightly different end but similar to the one in the image www.areva.com
by lillymunster via Areva 7/7/2011 12:57:48 PM

As an afterthought, if an explosion had happened so near the SFP that fuel assemblies would have been ejected, the pool scene would look different. Probably, the pool would be cracked many times with hardly any water remaining.
by Peter Melzer 7/7/2011 12:59:37 PM

Great catch @dean!
by bo 7/7/2011 1:00:36 PM

@Peter Melzer with the blast as powerful and upward focused as it was, could it have sucked things out of the pool?
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 1:01:29 PM

ty bo, maybe we should copyright it and make some money to replace elaine and lilly's computers which are worn by now
by dean 7/7/2011 1:04:24 PM

dean, a second brilliant observation!
by bo 7/7/2011 1:05:14 PM

Fuel rods. www.sciencephoto.com
by lillymunster via Sciencephoto 7/7/2011 1:15:32 PM

@dean Do you know off hand the diameter of an individual fuel rod/tupe? The pictures discussed below look to me like 1.5 inch at least. Not small like individual rod.
by RBeaner 7/7/2011 1:18:06 PM

rod illustration
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 1:21:31 PM

Working on daily news roundup. Anyone have anything they think should be included?
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 1:25:05 PM

@lilly this story about the katsuo harvest is important. It illustrates how contaminated food will make it into public consumption through stealth methods
by bo 7/7/2011 1:30:15 PM

Doh! ex-skf.blogspot.com
by bo 7/7/2011 1:30:20 PM

Smoss has a paper on MOX fuel at Fukushima and would like feedback. Please take a look here wp.me
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 1:30:33 PM

@bo Is katsuo considered just tuna. Any idea if this is fresh only or the kind that ends up canned?
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 1:31:10 PM

@lillymunster katsuo is not regular tuna here. It is a specific type of tuna that is used for what is called "bonita" here, a very, very popular way to eat fish. It is seared on the outside and the rest is raw. It is eaten as sashimi.
by bo 7/7/2011 1:40:59 PM

Here is a link to what was used of my interview today on ABC radio in Australia. Both transcript and link to the audio: www.radioaustralia.net.au
by bo 7/7/2011 1:41:42 PM

@Bo, found this rather surreal article about how Fukushima has impacted the sex trade in Japan. One person interviewed (single parent) said she lost her job, has temporary housing but the utilities are not paid and needed money. (warning adult type content in the article) www.tokyoreporter.com
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 1:45:03 PM

@lilly I posted this link a few weeks ago. Needless to say, in working on the social aspects, this kind of thing is amazing. Look how deeply the fears of contamination go, even deeper than basic carnal lust.
by bo 7/7/2011 1:46:37 PM

@bo sort of something that went from bad to worse. It lost the varnish that might hide some of the bias and fear in a more polite part of society.
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 1:52:47 PM

@lilly it's why I like to use b-movies in my historical work, they don't bother with pretense, they just express things in their most base form.
by bo 7/7/2011 1:53:39 PM

@bo It surprised me some of the perceptions people were harboring out of fear and lack of understanding. Getting no, or garbage information from the government probably isn't helping. It seems like something as simple as a document outlining what is and isn't safe could help but things get so complex how would you cover every possibility. Yesterday was schools with contaminated swimming pool dirt who likely hadn't tested the pool water. It probably didn't cross anyone's mind that the pool might be contaminated due to being outside.
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 2:01:26 PM

english.kyodonews.jp

Cover for Fukushima reactor
Handout photo shows an iron frame under construction in Iwaki, Fukushima Prefecture, on June 24, 2011, for a cover of the building housing the No. 1 reactor at the Fukushima Nuclear Power Station. The cover for the building damaged by an explosion is intended to prevent the further spread of radioactive materials. (Photo courtesy of Tokyo Electric Power Co.) (Kyodo) english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano via English.kyodonews.jp 7/7/2011 2:03:54 PM

Morning all! Sipping first cup of coffee and found this headline...not sure if there's more info yet..TEPCO halts cooling Fukushima Daini reactor over power panel trouble
TOKYO, July 7, Kyodo
english.kyodonews.jp
by LM 7/7/2011 2:04:24 PM

Nitrogen injection could be delayed at Fukushima
The operator of the troubled Fukushima Daiichi power plant is having trouble injecting nitrogen gas into one of the reactors to prevent a hydrogen explosion.

Tokyo Electric Power Company on Wednesday examined the No.3 reactor to see if it can connect injection pipes to the containment vessel.

A camera-mounted robot was used for the operation because high radioactive levels are preventing workers from remaining in the reactor building for long periods.

But TEPCO failed to confirm the situation because the robot couldn't reach the necessary part of the reactor.

Radiation levels as high as about 50 millisieverts per hour were registered in the area. www3.nhk.or.jp
by LM 7/7/2011 2:05:46 PM

@lilly I would say that very few people really have any understanding of radiation. In that absence, coarse fears and projections take over. In order for any kind of public information campaign to be effective, people would have to listen. That said, the GoJ is so reluctant to evacuate people in contaminated zones, how devoted are they to a rigorous public education campaign? My sense is that these problems will simply compound as the summer goes on.
by bo 7/7/2011 2:09:19 PM

Hi LM, the loss of cooling at Daini is new. They seem to be having lots of troubles over there.

What I find concerning about #3 beyond the high radiation levels is how urgent they seem to be to put nitrogen in it. They don't provide details on the actual risk of an explosion. 3 is already unstable. An explosion could make more of the building fall in. Not sure if it would be enough to do more to 4 but that could be really ugly.
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 2:09:25 PM

Hi @LM
by bo 7/7/2011 2:09:26 PM

@bo I am sure your right. I would hope one of the NGOs might try to help put out information in the same way they are slowly getting testing and food education out there.
by lillymunster 7/7/2011 2:10:30 PM

sorry I had to step away..
by dean 7/7/2011 2:12:14 PM

@RBeaner.. I am not exactly sure on the diameter but we should have something in archives that lilly may be able to get up to look at..
by dean 7/7/2011 2:13:59 PM