Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2748

Ha, you mean statistically. OK, I didn't understand what you meant. I got it now.
by Pedro Jesus 12/6/2011 12:03:30 PM

what i mean is the higher the dose, the more tissue is affected, the more overloaded is the repair system of the body, and thus the cancer will develop the earlier. (i.e. within months instead within years)
by Edano 12/6/2011 12:05:50 PM

@Edano According to what I read in different literature that is not the case. The cancer mechanism isn't affected. Some types of cancer have a faster mechanism than others and the chances of developing more aggressive cancers increases with the level of exposure but leukemia, for example, will always take a few years to develop regardless of the level of exposure. One will die from other ailments (such as vital organ's collapse) due to higher level exposure way before any type of cancer will develop. At least that's the idea most scientists support based on the available studies.
by Pedro Jesus 12/6/2011 12:14:48 PM

@Pedro Jesus acute leukemia is the same syndrome as high level radiation poisoning. Calling it leukemia makes it sound more palatable to people like TEPCO. All acute leukemia is not radiation poisoning. We were talking about this after that sudden worker death.
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 12:20:06 PM

@lillymunster It doesn't necessarily make it more scientific, though.
by Pedro Jesus 12/6/2011 12:21:12 PM

no, not the cancer mechanism is affected. but before it comes to cancer the cell must be damaged. and this damage is bigger with higher radiation, and therefore it comes earlier to cancer. the latency time is shorter. when you have a low dose strontium in your bone, it will need decades or never to develop cancer, but when you have higher doses, it will be faster.
by Edano 12/6/2011 12:21:14 PM

@Edano OK, agreed. Just wanted to make that more clear. Thanks.
by Pedro Jesus 12/6/2011 12:22:03 PM

Hmm makes me wonder about the US tooth study. If they tracked all donors if there would be a connection between dose and cancers or if those were too small of an exposure to make a connection.
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 12:26:00 PM

@lilly there is a group of Japanese scholars forming that is committed to getting more awareness of internal exposures. Some are MDs some are physicists, some are historians. I will talk to them about trying to find a home institution that can undertake a new tooth study, as you suggested some months ago.
by bo 12/6/2011 12:30:41 PM

Ok look, another nuclear shill saying everyone in Fukushima should go home because it is just "fear" of radiation. spectator.org
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 12:30:45 PM

@lillymunster as to the reiss study, they did not make any connection. the parents were simply shocked of the fact that their children had rad strontium in their teeth. it was a rervelation that the nuke tests enter the body.
by Edano 12/6/2011 12:31:30 PM

@bo let me know if you find interest. I can put together background and resources on the original US study if you get some bites.
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 12:31:56 PM

yes, as bo says, the simple awareness of contamination was new in the 50s.
by Edano 12/6/2011 12:32:37 PM

@lilly I know these people. They will be interested. Whether they can find institutional help I can't say.
by bo 12/6/2011 12:32:49 PM

@Edano correct and that was the goal of the study. I think the analysis did include levels in the actual lab data, I can't remember if it was separated by numbers to not connect back to the child or if it was name associated with samples given.
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 12:33:06 PM

I was just on RT again, but there was earlier coverage today, posted above.
by bo 12/6/2011 12:33:28 PM

by bo 12/6/2011 12:33:31 PM

My friend Dasha at RT is very committed to getting this story out.
by bo 12/6/2011 12:33:54 PM

@bo The original St. Louis study used multiple institutions where the key researchers were located and the administration work was done independently. But I don't know if that would fly today. :-)
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 12:34:22 PM

@lilly it may here. They would know the institutional culture much better than I.
by bo 12/6/2011 12:35:44 PM

More coverage on the Thom Hartman show
by bo 12/6/2011 12:38:32 PM

@lilly, in that epa document you posted yesterday an interesting distinction was made between the human body's response to low-level exposure (stochastic) and high-level exposure (non-stochastic). The response to high doses is dose-dependent and has a threshold. Acute radiation syndrome worsens with dose. By contrast, the low-dose response does not possess a threshold and is an all-or-nothing response, that is either you get cancer or you don't. There is no such thing as contracting a little cancer. I found that is an important distinction for risk assessment.
by Peter 12/6/2011 12:44:04 PM

@Peter Was that the "dose conversion factors" one?
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 12:51:14 PM

@lillymunster, I was reading the Guardian article about the water laced with Sr90 leak and one of the main links embedded in the article was to a SimpyInfo page!
by bo 12/6/2011 12:52:49 PM

@bo ooh really? Can you find me the Guardian article again?
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 12:53:53 PM

It's the link to the largest release of radiation into the sea ever: www.guardian.co.uk
by bo 12/6/2011 12:55:19 PM

The goal of the website is coming more and more into fruition, we are a source of information for the media and for people around the world.
by bo 12/6/2011 12:57:03 PM

@bo I have noticed frequently the site is pulling up in Google searches when I go to look up some past event to cite it for something. Usually within the first 5-10 results.
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 12:58:07 PM

A job well done
by bo 12/6/2011 12:58:25 PM

@lillymunster, great work. A public service.
by bo 12/6/2011 12:58:57 PM

@ Bo for all of us.
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 12:59:58 PM

ah the french study. i guess there is still no better translation out. what a shame !
by Edano 12/6/2011 1:00:46 PM

we seem to be the only english source for it. :)
by Edano 12/6/2011 1:02:05 PM

Something I had been thinking about since Ian mentioned a recent Mainichi article was no longer online. Some of the news content online is starting to go away and not all of the media outlets keep online archives. I ran into multiple Mainichi articles from back in March and April that are gone. The one Ian found was only a month old. Maybe we should be archiving this stuff somehow?

I also wondered if some sort of database of links to content in newspapers, agencies, other websites etc. could be useful. I know I lose track of links unless I bookmark them. I probably average 50 links a day I have floating around trying to decide what to do with them after someone posts them here.
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 1:03:27 PM

Wow, all we did was machine translate the study to English and repost it. :-)
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 1:04:51 PM

Vanity Fair article on the Fukushima workers www.vanityfair.com
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 1:07:55 PM

Agreed about archiving. They may not. We should. I'm traveling to the states again tomorrow, so time to relax with some Fawltey Towers. Back in a bit.
by bo 12/6/2011 1:10:22 PM

@bo if you know of any good archival software let me know. I was considering just building SQL databases and making PDFs of news articles
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 1:12:38 PM

@lillymunster , yes.
by Peter 12/6/2011 1:16:18 PM

@bo , "Sybil?"... "Basil?" One of my favorite shows!
by Peter 12/6/2011 1:19:48 PM

Cesium: to detect 40 million cans of powdered milk for free replacement of the Meiji

10:21 minutes Updated December 06, 2011: December 06, 3:22 minutes

Problems were detected received from powdered cesium was removed from store shelves "step" Meiji, December 06, 2011 in Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo = Iwashita, Koichiro shooting
　The food giant Meiji (Koto Ward, Tokyo) 06, powdered milk "step" Meiji announced that Becquerel discovered the radioactive cesium up to 30.8 kilometers per 850 g portion of the can. According to the Ministry of Health, the first detection of cesium from the milk. Regulatory limit provisional dairy (200 becquerel per kilogram) is less than that which is level with no impact on the health drink every day, the company is "the highest priority that you use with peace of mind" as the detected product free exchange of about 400,000 cans were produced in the near term with the same issues.

　Cesium has been detected, its Saitama factory (Kasukabe, Saitama Prefecture), but with some powdered milk was prepared in 14 to 20 March. November 28, "I heard out of radioactive material in step" with inquiries from news organizations and were examined, such as stock-minute, 21.5 to 30.8 Becquerel discovered. Powdered milk products were produced using the period around the detection limit either (1 becquerel per kilogram) was less than.

　Some of the raw milk produced in Australia and other countries but most of Hokkaido, was produced before any earthquake East. The company has created a powder and dried in hot air was a mist sprayed with water to mix powdered milk, "affected the cesium contained in the air captured in the process of drying," analysts said.

　The company has approximately once a month from the end of April, have been regular inspections of radioactive materials. For production are examined for those of March, March 21, a higher dose of radiation in the atmosphere in the Kanto region, it was below the detection limit.

　The ministry is "health impact falls below regulatory limits is not considered provisional" respectively. On the other hand, as children may be affected by radioactive substances than adults, and established the classification of infant foods, plans to set the current value of more stringent regulations.

　Subject of a free replacement, and 3% October next year shelf life, product distribution nationwide same day 21-24. Your company Contact Center (0120.077.369, 9 am to 5 pm weekdays). Soda Taku [,] Takanori Ishikawa

　By Meiji ◇ "Meiji 850 g cans step" test result
　　　Shelf life of cesium concentration

October 04, 2012 21.5 Bq

　　　　　　　　Becquerel 29.0 21

　　　　　　　　Becquerel 30.8 22

　　　　　　　　Becquerel 22.5 24

※ The figures per kilogram of test results

※ checks by germanium semiconductor detector, the detection limit is 5 becquerels per kilogram mainichi.jp
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 1:56:34 PM

@Peter, yes, the perfect tonic to a long day, and a longer one tomorrow. @lillymunster, don't know of any specific archival software. I use citation software but that is different. I will ask around.
by bo 12/6/2011 2:16:55 PM

Posting this again in case people didn't catch it. Article goes into detail of why the disaster panel thinks TEPCO's claim that the tsunami did it is totally flawed. They also go into deeper detail how they think accident investigation needs to proceed to get real answers. ajw.asahi.com
by lillymunster 12/6/2011 3:02:42 PM