Japan Earthquake | Page 102

  • Could chugging explain the contradictory results? That criticality is reached, radioactive isotopes released only for criticality to cease?
    by kb 3/27/2011 6:54:22 PM

  • @Patrick Kelley I just add something : With all that white paper around, should it be difficult for them to NAME them for ordinary people ? ok, we all have internet here, but how many didn't have it ? when a media show this on tv, how many can undertand it ??
    by Future Isnow 3/27/2011 6:54:32 PM

  • @kb sure could.
    by Patrick Kelley 3/27/2011 6:54:41 PM

  • @kb I saw a speculation that the rumored crack might be just above the water line that are able to achieve. Below it leaks steam. Above it leaks contaminated water.
    by radioguy 3/27/2011 6:56:13 PM

  • BBC TV News frequently features Malcolm Grimston of Chatham House (you can Google his credentials) as a guest "nuclear expert" in their coverage of the situation. He mentioned tonight that every day that goes by sees a reduced risk of the situation worsening due to the fact that the nuclear fuel is decaying. Being that this is therefore what the UK public at large is being led to believe, can anyone here comment on his assertion?
    by highlander 3/27/2011 6:56:19 PM

  • @es liquid metal cooling have been suggested by a Ukrainian team of scientist, they think to tin . And they have the experience of what must not be done. check wikipedia, you will found that the idea was submitted on 17 march officially to japan's government
    by Future Isnow 3/27/2011 6:56:24 PM

  • @kb It would not explain the 1st test results (10hr delay, huge amounts of I-134, not possible. Has to be a measurement or approximation error). As for chugging, I'm not so up-to-speed on the specifics so I can't comment.
    by vasra 3/27/2011 6:56:46 PM

  • I believe Tepco truly does not know what's going on, as opposed to them knowing the truth but choosing to withhold information and/or lie.
    by kb 3/27/2011 6:56:51 PM

  • @futureisnow without a pretty good understand of material chemistry all of this information is useless to the general population. The constant switch of radiation units (why are we measuring Sieverts?!?!) and the lack of explaining methods behind results, coupled with bad reporting, this is becoming quite a mess for the general public to follow anything.
    by Patrick Kelley 3/27/2011 6:57:26 PM

  • @Future IsnowYes, I saw those reports. I wondered how realistic this actually is here.
    by es 3/27/2011 6:57:49 PM

  • question.. If the water in the cooling pools cooked off and then was sprayed...Rinse repeat rinse repeat. The fuel being exposed to air would be like a sparkler of sorts. Wouldn't that make the water contamination/radiation level skyrocket due to the added particulate from burning and rinsing?

    Answer
    According to the book someone posted here yesterday, the answer is a qualified yes. Fuel pellets form a roughly stable 0 mass transfer boundary across the cladding even during operation. There can be pinholes in the cladding which normally are of no concern. But, if the temperature of the pellet is changed rapidly, core water temp changes rapidly, and/or the pressure profile changes across the cladding then, core water flows into the pellet, then comes back out of the pellet carrying the dissolved fission products like cesium, iodine and strontium. Because of this, there is normally a spike in core water radioactivity when the reactor is shut down.
    by NHK Listener 3/27/2011 6:57:51 PM

  • @kb We know they have no eyes in the plant at this time. That's even the issue with robotics. How do you see when the camera chips fry instantly?
    by radioguy 3/27/2011 6:58:30 PM

  • @Patrick Kelley I agree. And many of these processes are under conditions not fully known (pressure, temps, exact chemical mix inside the reactors and/or PCV), because of instrumentation malfunctions. It's a guessing game and I guess it's the same for Tepco people.
    by vasra 3/27/2011 6:58:44 PM

  • @highlander read the pinned news stories for today
    by George Gibb 3/27/2011 6:59:19 PM

  • @highlander this was true during the first few days of decay, the decay rates are very, very slow now (almost identical) you won't see huge decay rates on the isotopes that have long half-lifes. Everyone is focusing on I-131 (half life ~8 days) and the really bad stuff is the stuff that won't decay for centuries.
    by Patrick Kelley 3/27/2011 7:00:06 PM

  • Can someone explain this info from zmag based on CTBTO data March 26? They write:"Die Jod-131 Werte, die in Kalifornien und auf Hawaii gemessen wurden, sind nicht unmittelbar gesundheitsrelevant. Sie legen aber eine beträchtliche Emission in der von uns berichteten Größenordnung nahe." As I understand it the I-131 levels in Cal and Hawaii are not of immediate concern for health. But the second sectence seem to say that they are close to it based on their estimations of the emissions? (Please if someone can translate, I don't quite get it) Does anyone know the actual values for Hawaii?
    by Jill in Sweden 3/27/2011 7:00:32 PM

  • Musing: I wonder if TEPCO is up-to-date enough to have given detailed plans of the plant to some of those genius 3D modelers so they can make models to move a robot blind.
    by radioguy 3/27/2011 7:01:20 PM

  • @kb: i agree. dean described it as being outside a three ring circus tent trying to figure it, they are just closest to the tent, still outside.
    by elise 3/27/2011 7:02:16 PM

  • @Jill: The second sentence means 'but they imply a significant amount of emissions in the order of magnitude we reported'.. i.e. they're saying based on the low but measurable amount measured in Hawaii/California Fukushima must have emitted a lot of fallout.
    by sims 3/27/2011 7:02:28 PM

  • @Jill in Sweden : "the levels indicate a very high emission near to the assumptions we made."
    by Matsuoko 3/27/2011 7:02:41 PM

  • If we are just discussing half baked conspiracy theories, how about this one: No. 3 reactor is in fact not only "damaged", but it's totally wasted. The explosion we saw was an indication of very swift pressure relief, not an hydrogen detonation like No. 1 reactor. The containment and the Reactor Pressure Vessel have both exploded. For optical confirmation, look at www.youtube.com (4:50 minutes) and www.youtube.com (00:09 minutes), both times at the left side of the picture, than compare the round structure from the videos with this 9VUIo.jpg (delete the space before the "9"!). So, now my theory is out there. It`s likely to be hogwash, becasue the reactor vessel must be located in the midst of the building and the height isn't on one level with the SFP. But hey, the building exploded, after all. *Flame away*

  • Correction for the last link: imgur.com
    by Salvador 3/27/2011 7:04:18 PM

  • Thanks. What about the " not of IMMEDIATE concern for health" - they don
    by Jill in Sweden 3/27/2011 7:04:23 PM

  • correction don't say no concern - what are the values?
    by Jill in Sweden 3/27/2011 7:05:03 PM

  • @Patrick Kelley if you say plutonium or iodin, it's better than pu294 or others thing. I would like also that everyone use uSV for microsiverts, and not mSv which is the same than mSv, but for micro or milli. In fact, these have gave us 2 big mistakes, publicly, live, in NHK. And may be in Tepco. The best we can do for people to understand, the better they will trust the nuclear industry. For now, that industry, and all the "Agencies for safety", blablabla use terms and scales and symbols which CAN't be understood by people. for their safety ? or for their "ignorance"?
    by Future Isnow 3/27/2011 7:05:20 PM

  • @Jill usually there's an English PDF linked at the bottom.
    by radioguy 3/27/2011 7:05:48 PM

  • @George Gibb - Thanks, I have been following the news stories closely, that's why his statement didn't compute imho. I wondered if I was missing something. His message was very much one of reassurance, broadcast on the BBC News channel. Even the newsreader seemed relieved.
    by highlander 3/27/2011 7:06:00 PM

  • @future siervets is a very dangerous way to catalog radiation.
    by Patrick Kelley 3/27/2011 7:06:08 PM

  • @Patrick Kelley - thank you.
    by highlander 3/27/2011 7:06:30 PM

  • @radioguy: aren't there cams that don't fry: www.rosys.com
    by timme 3/27/2011 7:06:52 PM

  • Question : As a follower of this site & previous Reuters - mentioned saltwater evaporation rate as leaving 30 grams per liter , how deep aprox. might the salt residue be on the interior components ??
    by Salu 3/27/2011 7:07:03 PM

  • @Highlander Grimstons comment is a clever one. It gives no specifics, no quantities and really amounts to how longs a bit of string a sfar as info goes.
    by Charlie 3/27/2011 7:07:30 PM

  • @radioguy thank you, I know, but not for the 26th
    by Jill in Sweden 3/27/2011 7:07:43 PM

  • I believe that 30 gm/liter was contradicted credibly a few days afterward. I can't recall the new figure though.
    by Sky 3/27/2011 7:08:10 PM

  • quick fact-
    Sievert is "absorbed dose" and is based on the particles being close to you (not on or in)
    by Patrick Kelley 3/27/2011 7:08:33 PM

  • @Patrick Kelley oh, I really agree on that... they are build on an average damage for the body . some microsieverts will spare your brain, but will kill your gonades (bollocks..) But if it's iodin or plutonium, it don't show it really, it don't show the risk
    by Future Isnow 3/27/2011 7:08:42 PM

  • @timme Thanks for the link to that. So, the camera is able to "withstand irradiation dose up to 2 x 108 RAD without sacrificing video quality." Good enough for this work?
    by radioguy 3/27/2011 7:10:05 PM

  • @Patrick Kelley My point was at least to help prevent BIG mistakes on siverts, as I have seen in France, and Japan . micro is not milli... so why not use uSv for Micro . the ulaw character is not something everyone can do easily on a computer. why not just use u ?
    by Future Isnow 3/27/2011 7:10:34 PM

  • @timme 10 to the 8th
    by radioguy 3/27/2011 7:10:36 PM

  • @Salvador The dry well holds pressure. So I think the explosion was external of the dry well
    www.nisa.meti.go.jp
    by NHK Listener 3/27/2011 7:10:40 PM

  • Iodine will give you thyroid cancer and plutonium decays to uranium which is alpha again and is dangerous when inhaled.
    by Charlie 3/27/2011 7:11:04 PM

  • @all I agree that Tepco doesn't have a real clue what is going on in the reactor, nor does anyone. Everytime (2 times I know of) that Corium has been produced they were reacting with different materials (sand/zirconium/iron,etc.) The fact is no one has any idea what this will do, how this will react, or even if the corium mass is in critticallity or chugging.

    The scary thing here, is the most informed nuclear scientist has no idea, because this has never happened before.
    by Patrick Kelley 3/27/2011 7:12:20 PM

  • @future I've taken that suggestion to heart myself. I wish the written press would.
    by radioguy 3/27/2011 7:12:53 PM

  • @future agreed, a standard would help a lot.
    by Patrick Kelley 3/27/2011 7:13:03 PM

  • Morning / Noon everyone,......seems like there is no news since i passed out ?..
    Just checked online and they revised the 10 Mil to 100.000 over limit ?
    by VeenOui 3/27/2011 7:13:21 PM

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