Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 613

@reed as a sampling ship from another state is headed for the Pacific to assess the contamination I would imagine that tepco had one hand up their back when they signed the order. www.sbs.com.au
by elainekirk 4/9/2011 11:15:57 PM

@elainekirk @dean what about these ships that dump thier ballast when they reach the desired harbor..... we have issues with creasure that hitch a ride from asia years ago and now are one of the biggest problems that are nuke houses have on thier sea water (river from the bay) intakes.... if they load with rad water over there, and they dump here ????????
by fitter 4/9/2011 11:22:26 PM

@elainekirk Very true, and thanks for the link. I'm just amazed that with as much press coverage that "the leak" from the pit received, no one mentioned the fact that there is a large, open tunnel below it leading directly into the harbor.
by Reed 4/9/2011 11:22:35 PM

@Reed also the level in the trench is rising, i am sure its still leaking underground, but now the flow in is greater than what can leak out
by fitter 4/9/2011 11:24:08 PM

@Reed Tepco is reporting that a pipe leak is the cause.. So it is hard to really say how much is leaking and where..
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 11:24:16 PM

@fitter there is still no change I posted the two reactors charts where changes had taken place , atmc.jp
by elainekirk 4/9/2011 11:24:59 PM

@NHK Listener i think they know more than they are saying, they have more and better access to thermals and i can see alot... if i had plant drawing and thermals, pretty sure i would know were to start looking, but if you find it and fix it..... the water just backs up in the turbine/reactor buildings ...... i don't belive at all that they know more and could stop more than they are.... they are buying time...
by fitter 4/9/2011 11:27:52 PM

@elainekirk @fitter @NHK Listener Between the run off from the tons of water that the fire trucks have been spraying and the leaking pipe, there must be a massive amount of highly radioactive water flowing out of that underground tunnel !
by Reed 4/9/2011 11:31:50 PM

At the end of the day it is a month since the earthquake , less than 2 weeks since they acknowledged the sea leak. Tepco wow the press with their sea screen so lets think...ah yes .. Dear Tepco when are you surveying the seabed to enable you to fit your screen? lets face it nobody knows the condition, geography , nature of debris on that seabed because it has only been in its present form for a month
by elainekirk 4/9/2011 11:32:10 PM

I asked this on another forum and here is what I got,,Me So far what I can tell (gleaned information) is that 2 and 3 are rpv breached into the drywell. The explosion in 2 was contained in the torus or wetwell, Water from 2 is leaking out to the turbine and flowing into the heat exchangers and into the trenches unabated. Water in the pit area near HEI 2 is also getting contaminants from more than one reactor,(means from 1 or 3) confirmed by dye tracer . Tepco is trying "Water Glass" in an attempt to slow/stop the leak so they can fill the pit with concrete and stop the flow into the ocean.

From the crack that was posted, That crack runs parallel to the water front which also would intersect with all the intake tanks from each reactor which may mean they are all leaking as well. So plugging one hole may result in 10 more appearing.

Rpv 3 failed and is at now atmospheric pressure and is leaking into the turbines and out to the heat exchangers.
As for Rpv number 1, may be still intact and they are allowing the pressure to rise to increase condensation inside the core. We will know for sure in a few more days.
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 11:33:16 PM

The last dw1 reading was something like 67, there must have been some event that caused it to spike, then stay dropping again. As ossie was still rising there may have been more "burps", quite convenient failure
by Markfm 4/9/2011 11:33:17 PM

Answer To say that it is leaking from the RPV into the turbines is probably inaccurate and likely due to an interpretation error or two.

To have this possible, you are talking about multiple, coincident breaches that have to line up to allow a leak of water from an RPV to get to the ocean.

You would need an RPV to drywell breach, which makes sense, as I feel all three plants had recirc line breaks.

Next you need a primary containment breech, needing to be low in the containment, as they are not full, so that water can leak into the reactor building.

Next you need a secondary containment breech that allows the leaking water in the reactor building into the turbine building.

Next you need an external breach of the main condenser, the "heat exchanger" you are likely referring to. This allows reactor water to get into the condenser.

Next you need a breach of the tubes in the main condenser, which allows reactor water to get into the tubes and out into the ocean via the concrete tunnel they are referring to.

Or you instead of the two previous mentioned breaches, you can have a single breach in the cooling water lines to or from the main condenser, allowing water collected in the turbine building to flow to the sea via the concrete tunnel.

Add to this, multiple breaches between three or four plants, lining up to allow a discharge like this to the sea.

All of this is very likely considering the magnitude of the quake they took along with the multiple aftershocks. And as is usual in events like this, so many windows line up that would not normally line up to allow for the worst case result.

Adding: With the massive damage to some of the buildings, any overflow from filling the fuel pools can drain directly to the reactor building through any breaches in the refuel floor. Then you need to connect the dots from the reactor building to the ocean.
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 11:33:45 PM

@Reed i would agree and the ocean readings back it up, NKL did you see or notice if the readings were on the way back up, i thought NHK news had something that stated it was on the rise (and the pipe is still fi
by fitter 4/9/2011 11:34:39 PM

pressure was still rising, that is (darn smart phone auto spell)
by Markfm 4/9/2011 11:34:57 PM

@NHK Listener have they issued findings from the dye testing.....i missed those...
by fitter 4/9/2011 11:39:16 PM

This EPA report is showing Uranium 234 & 238 in several states (airborn) www.epa.gov
by Debra Beckham 4/9/2011 11:39:58 PM

@fitter They confirmed the leak was from multiple sources into the pit..
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 11:40:46 PM

@NHK Listener The reply that you received on the other forum seems to not wish to connect the dots. With so much water "in" where did that individual believe was the "out" ?
by Reed 4/9/2011 11:41:28 PM

@fitter We can not deny the possibility that water in the turbine
building of Unit 4 flows into the trench of Unit 3. So, we stopped
transferring water to the Unit 4 turbine building to make assurance.
Present water level of the pit in the trench of Unit 3 is not changed
from the time we stopped transferring, and is being stable.
www.tepco.co.jp
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 11:43:19 PM

@Reed I think out is into every out that can leak.. But he did not say exactly where he thought all the water was going.. Quite a bit is going up as steam.
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 11:45:37 PM

@fitter I believe that all of the dyed water was simply flowing into the ocean...through the underwater tunnel.
by Reed 4/9/2011 11:46:03 PM

@NHK Listener I agree with you that every crack, save one, must be leaking by now. The amount of steam volume doesn't come close to the quantity of water that has been added to the situation.
by Reed 4/9/2011 11:48:48 PM

@Reed at one point they were going to move (pooled water) it to the seaside holding tanks and then transfer it to somewhere else.. not sure where the else is..
by NHK Listener 4/9/2011 11:54:27 PM

@All you've probably seen this, but just in case...crane camera video link www.fairewinds.com
by marie rich edited by elainekirk 4/9/2011 11:59:22 PM

@marie ty I have nnot watched that through and didnt have the link
by elainekirk 4/10/2011 12:05:16 AM

@NHK Listener The water that was pumped form the turbine rooms and closed trenches into the tanks must be significantly lower in both volume and rad count than the water that is escaping as runoff from the site itself if there are crushed and bulldozed fuel rods strewn about the property. They measure the water's radionuclide levels from points away from the spillways, but imagine the concentrations within the harbor !
by Reed 4/10/2011 12:07:36 AM

annoying, not permitted to link a jt article, told it looks like spam...
by Markfm 4/10/2011 12:08:59 AM

@NHK, read last night that GE is estimating that over 45 tons of salt brine is in the reactors, hindering the spray nozzles, and coating the reactor rods, thereby not allowing them to cool properly. There is NO way they can remove the salt.
by wtm 4/10/2011 12:12:06 AM

@Reed Even worse, they're still only listing the big three iodine and cessium nuclides. A footnote at the bottom says other radionuclides are still being examined. www.tepco.co.jp
by marie rich 4/10/2011 12:12:26 AM

Workers trying to trap water, nisa spokesman acknowledged they need to rework things
by Markfm 4/10/2011 12:13:46 AM

I see where the Pacific plate is still moving, Japan had a 6.1 last night and a 5 pointer today, the California coast has had about a hundred quakes in the last 24 hrs, all small ones, plus Alaska has had a few dozen. Still active, they may be getting more.
by wtm 4/10/2011 12:16:08 AM

@marie rich Someone posted an article explaing that unless they specifically asked for reporting of Strontium or Plutonium, TEPCo was not required to make or provide such an analysis.
by Reed 4/10/2011 12:16:33 AM

@elainekirk maybe he is just havibg the same problem that a lot of us have had on occasion doesn't seem to be a rytham to wen it does it....
by fitter 4/10/2011 12:18:06 AM

@Reed well that just makes me sick(er)!
by marie rich 4/10/2011 12:19:43 AM

@marie rich Hearing that I simply turned off the computer that night in disgust myself.
by Reed 4/10/2011 12:21:36 AM

@mark search.japantimes.co.jp Workers try to trap water from reactors
Steel plates, silt fence go up in bid to enclose toxic seawater www.japantimes.co.jp
by elainekirk via Japantimes.co.jp 4/10/2011 12:22:53 AM

TEPCO is reporting that the level of water in No. 2 plant pipe tunnel is now up a total of 10 cm, leaving about 90 cm roughly to the top of the trench. No overflow has occurred.

TEPCO is beginning to install the barriers that had been mentioned by NISA at one or two briefings. This entails sealing the southern end of the intake water breakwater enclosure with steel sheets, and placing fiter type silt screens across the seawater inlet of No. 2 plant and at the north end of the inlet area for all four plants. This should contain all particulate matter in this local area.

TEPCO will attempt to increase the purity of the nitrogen being injected to No. 1 plant. The motivations for this are not known; perhaps there is some oxygen content in the nitrogen gas.

Finally, from another totally unrelated site...

There is now information that during the most recent earthquake, Higashidori nuclear station experienced inoperability of all three of its diesel generators. NISA has commented that one diesel on standby isn't enough. Whether or not Higashidori actually entered a full SBO is not clear yet, but this will surely come out somewhere at some point and we'll keep an eye out for it. I myself am beginning to suspect that the Japanese industry's standby power requirements and SBO awareness are a leading contributor to the Fukushima Daiichi accident. atomicpowerreview.blogspot.com
by NHK Listener 4/10/2011 12:25:42 AM

@wtm Salt holds heat as well.. I wonder how much would dissolve back into the fresh water though?
by NHK Listener 4/10/2011 12:27:54 AM

@wtm Check that Arkansas one about an hour ago... only a 2.6, but at a depth of 0.1 km??
by radioguy 4/10/2011 12:29:25 AM

@NHK Listener wonder if they are 1) tryiing to get contaiment vessel to a level with less injection..... or does increacing the nitrogen purity remove either oxygen/or water/moisture
by fitter 4/10/2011 12:29:41 AM

@elainekirk @Markfm Thanks for the Japan Times article. At least it mentions the tunnel as an intake for the reactor...but notice the use of the word intake rather than exit.
by Reed 4/10/2011 12:30:08 AM