Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 896

@dean Oh sorry it's the first pic of the latest Cryptome photoset.
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 5:11:55 PM

(which might take you too long to look at, LOL, I think es answered my question)
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 5:12:42 PM

@dean is there a reactor model where you would flood the area above fuel pool / reactor top level in order to carry out maintanance?
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 5:12:51 PM

@dean I had assumed there would be computer programs or something that tell operators what to do with each assembly. Without knowing anything I figured they must move all the fuel around (replacing 1/3) each fueling cycle, in order to maximize output from each assembly.
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 5:15:09 PM

no elaine... that air locked bulkhead between the SFP and the reactor allows the reactor water level/reactor vessel level to be adjusted with respect to each other... the SFP water level is usually maintained at the same water level due to the skimmer systems and water treatment system relying on that fixed level... on the other hand the reactor vessel water level is raised or lowered depending on maintenance being done but,,, at the same exact level for fuel handling
by dean 4/29/2011 5:16:22 PM

@dean The latest CTBTO data indicates a large increase in emissions starting April 17-18. Since then, it has been worse than anytime since March 31.
by Bobby1 4/29/2011 5:16:29 PM

General.. that's what the fuels management wing of the facility does.. that org has to keep track of all that and then plan into preparations for fuel handling,, actual outage fuel handling and then post outage fuel handling
by dean 4/29/2011 5:17:22 PM

agree Bobby1,,, thus I believe NRC would be ripped by CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT HEARING on that statement..
by dean 4/29/2011 5:18:31 PM

did that make sense elaine..
by dean 4/29/2011 5:18:51 PM

@dean can you explain what is happening here?
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 5:19:32 PM

@dean I have imagined/assumed, too, that operators would probably pre-load new assemblies into SPF prior to maintenance, then shut down reactor, move all the fuel between reactor and SFP and vice versa, then after plant is back up running, use that time to move the really old spent fuel to dry cask.

Uh. well, except for the last part, at least....sigh....
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 5:20:08 PM

Nancy. TOP head of the reactor off barrier set up in preparation for work
by dean 4/29/2011 5:21:22 PM

yes General,,, need to search on refueling sequence at BWR reactors
by dean 4/29/2011 5:22:07 PM

@dean cheers so the fuel pool totally circles the reactor?
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 5:22:38 PM

elaine.. could you link wehre that photo is..
by dean 4/29/2011 5:24:21 PM

@dean erm...at this moment in time.....nope
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 5:25:17 PM

@elainekirk I think the reactor well is flooded.
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 5:25:30 PM

I can find that one.. just waanted to check... it has to have water in it so that the bulkhead can be removed elaine to transfer the fuel under water to the SFP
by dean 4/29/2011 5:27:24 PM

@dean and do tepco have that particular set up at any of theirs? is it a bwr?
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 5:28:28 PM

www.nucleartourist.com some good photos on this site about BWR's operation
by dean edited by elainekirk 4/29/2011 5:29:40 PM

yep elaine
by dean 4/29/2011 5:29:49 PM

www.iaea.org

As far as I can tell this does not indicate any two-story re-racking -- just packing in more on the single level.
by General Armchair edited by elainekirk 4/29/2011 5:30:40 PM

@dean OT but have again wondered about this, at PWRs the SFP is outside the containment in another building, right? And there is a canal between the reactor well and the SPF? Are they therefore more or less at the same level or do they have any "locks" in the system to change levels?
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 5:33:49 PM

not on that file General
by dean 4/29/2011 5:35:55 PM

@general I was thinking photo's the actual doc here doesnt mention double deckers just reracking www.nirs.org
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 5:40:28 PM

@dean (sorry to keep bombarding you with questions, but you have kind of asked for it, grin) At some point I remember reading that fuel (in BWRs) is "over-ended" (or something like that, can't recall exact wording) when moved between reactor well and SFP. I took this to mean that when moving the assembly through the gate, the fuel was moved through horizontlly -- ????? Does this make any sense? I would think if you need X amount of water between you and spent fuel fresh out of the reactor (which is why the SFP are so deep), that if you needed that much water the "gate" would have to extend pretty much to the floor of the SFP if you DON'T tilt it up horizontal to pass it through the gate.

I guess you worked at PWR, not BWR, but perhaps you could guess based on what they did in PWR you have worked at?
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 5:41:58 PM

@elainekirk Thanks am checking it out now.
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 5:43:34 PM

General.. at least at the facility I worked out.. you cannot place the fuel element on horizontal until a certain time after shutdown.. the fuel elements at BWR's I believe would be the same.. but, it's a good question that needs verification
by dean 4/29/2011 5:44:41 PM

@dean Okay thanks.
try this www.dailykos.com
by General Armchair edited by elainekirk 4/29/2011 5:45:11 PM

elaine.. there have been patents put in for a stacking rack.. have to dig up the details
by dean 4/29/2011 5:48:29 PM

and.. japan's way of doing it
by dean 4/29/2011 5:48:35 PM

www.pjstar.com elaine.. search for stacked in that linnk
by dean 4/29/2011 5:51:22 PM

hello all
by fitter 4/29/2011 5:52:52 PM

hi fitter.. how's things
by dean 4/29/2011 5:54:58 PM

@dean okies @general if you read this very well referenced report you should be able to form an opinion www.dailykos.com
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 5:55:12 PM

watched the NRC meeting, they need to here and learn... when we have our hurricanes and northeastrener they last longer than four hours and they can not deploy "anyone" till the storm leaves... and they pre-stage the untilitie trucks from three states.... so they better get bigger batteries... WHAT a joke that meeting was!!!!!
by fitter 4/29/2011 5:56:04 PM

I"d like to call the NRC to the carpet in congress.. with a citizens committee asking questions
by dean 4/29/2011 5:57:54 PM

@elainekirk Thanks, am reading that now -- the TEPCO report was very interesting too.
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 5:59:02 PM

@General Armchair when looking at the thermal pics, I do not know how to quantifiy the radiation out put from the equipment and resiude/sludge from the tanks.. but i do believe in some of the buildings they are not inside were they started and how that would show on a thermal ???????
by fitter 4/29/2011 5:59:11 PM

@dean To my mind the fact that despite 9/11 the NRC allowed nuke operators to stack more spent rods in SFP is a major failing of the organization and indicative of who and what they are really protecting: industry profits.
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 6:00:27 PM

@dean they sounded so stupid that it was embaressing.... and yes I WILL be calling my senetor/congressman again.... and I'm going to e-mail surry and request the time it took to restore "the outside" lines....
by fitter 4/29/2011 6:00:55 PM

YOU HIT IT RIGHT ON THE HEAD.. General.. the driver... DOE failed on a promise forcing COMMERCIAL NUC'S to store fuel and then SPEND millions to get the dry storage going.. all at the rate payers expense.. SHAME..
by dean 4/29/2011 6:02:27 PM

@dean I was readig up on some ASME codes for the reactor and Nozzles..... most plants would not permit some of the "repairs" even thougth they seem to be "legal" just because of saftey reasons.... I can only read those docs for so long.... Its just that scary
by fitter 4/29/2011 6:08:02 PM

Results of analysis of spent fuel pool water of Fukushima Daiichi NPP Unit 4 (Date of collection: April 28; Date of analysis: April 29):
www.tepco.co.jp
by es 4/29/2011 6:09:16 PM