Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 898

mighty good work Nancy
by dean 4/29/2011 7:58:56 PM

@elainekirk Looks quite similar, though maybe not as high? I am pretty sure that the dumpster thing seen in the latest Cryptome pics is for low level waste like booties Tyvek suits, etc. -- doesn't look like it's all that secure, etc.?
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:00:01 PM

@Nancy Nisa has stats on new/used/amts of fuel rods at this link (for what it's worth) scroll down: www.nisa.meti.go.jp
by marie rich 4/29/2011 8:00:20 PM

elaine.. I was thinking on the fuku cleanup.. there will probably be all kinds of containers like dumpsters for commercial work to radioactive casks
by dean 4/29/2011 8:00:36 PM

@nancy it is showing nothing on a couple just the missing image symbol?
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 8:02:07 PM

@General Armchair the mega hole in the #3 turbine roof might be on part of the concrete reactor well cover. They are gone out of the well and the big hole is about the right size.
by Nancy 4/29/2011 8:02:31 PM

I have heard that theory but I think the one I present to fitter...well..."fits" a lot better :)
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:03:09 PM

(Sorry, that last comment was @Nancy)
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:03:21 PM

@nancy figures www.nirs.org and some very well referenced figures www.dailykos.com
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 8:04:07 PM

@General Armchair- wrong the light panels would not have sufficent mass as well as not achieving ternminal velocity because of less mass and more surface area. The girders still being in position does not mean that concrete didn't pass through, the concrete was already cracked up and structurally was not just one solid mass. If you need explanation of the physics of how this is possible, I will explain it ad nauseum later today on the unmodded blog @Nancy - you are correct.
by Lethbridgean 4/29/2011 8:10:15 PM

@Lethbridgean Hmmm. How does the reactor plug get through the mostly intact roof girder structure in #3 reactor building? The girders, though mangled, are all still there, over the well.

???
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:12:26 PM

@General Armchair -it was busted up into smaller pieces before it ever was at the roof height.
by Lethbridgean 4/29/2011 8:13:35 PM

@Nancy I sent you a marked up pic showing what I meant in comment to fitter, just in case I didn't explain it clearly enough.
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:13:38 PM

@Lethbridgean What was busted up? You mean the reactor plug? Or my presumed wall panels?
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:14:48 PM

@Dean do you think the fuel in the video looks damaged? Sorry if you already discussed it. I looked at prior posts, but didn't see comments.
by Scilla 4/29/2011 8:21:20 PM

@all. If anyone saw something of interest in the new batch of cryptome images that they want close ups of or a better view etc. let me know.
by Nancy 4/29/2011 8:21:25 PM

@nancy the pipe going under the road it is the same piping as the units? and is it broken on the left?
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 8:22:54 PM

my initial estimation is that there is some damage Scilla
by dean 4/29/2011 8:23:34 PM

Anyone else notice this? There is a security camera in this image looking at the building. I wouldn't take much to get those set up wirelessly with a solar panel. Though I do not know if wifi or cell signal would be messed up by the radiation? They could or do have much more visual ability
by Nancy 4/29/2011 8:24:03 PM

@dean I noticed in the rack in the middle of the picture. Some assembly tops were visible and shiny and some were darker and hard to see the details of the top. Is that likely a sign of damage or do they just do that when they have been in the pool a long time?
by Nancy 4/29/2011 8:25:18 PM

@Nancy I noticed that. And also what looks to be two TV cameras (???) on container (?) on a truck. You can see it in the pics that show the robot excavator at work.
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:26:14 PM

@Nancy: Re the question about double stacking the SF rods, I found a very detailed PDF that also pretty much confirms they're not vertically double stacked (as does General Armchair). Lots of other info in it too, which might be useful (?). Bit of a pain that the PDF's from a scanned doc, so not text searchable. Anyway, the relevant SFP stuff is on P41, 3rd and 2nd to last paras. Doesn't explicitly state they're not double stacked, but the SFP measurement figures they give would amount to the same thing (i.e. 12 m depth, for 4 m fuel rods, with 8m water above rod tops) ...

www.nirs.org
by Paul 4/29/2011 8:27:08 PM

www-pub.iaea.org SOME INFORMATION ON FUEL STORAGE
by dean 4/29/2011 8:32:24 PM

DAMAGE i'd say nancy..
by dean 4/29/2011 8:33:00 PM

be back.. getting snack
by dean 4/29/2011 8:33:04 PM

@all: i want to suggest when speakiung about pictures, esp when the discussion, as know, jumps from one to another, please paste a copy of the picture in here. it is very hard to follow or jump into the discussion if you cannot see the picture. this was done very well in the past, but recently it has been lost a bit. thank you. :)
by Edano 4/29/2011 8:33:54 PM

@General Armchair That box on the truck is their improvised mobile control booth for the automated equipment. I had seen images inside it and saw descriptions of it before. First pic of it from the outside I have seen. The cameras on that are probably for viewing the vehicles.
by Nancy 4/29/2011 8:35:12 PM

@Nancy Makes perfect sense, thank you.
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:35:42 PM

@Edano yes, it helps massively to have a link to said picture.
by Nancy 4/29/2011 8:35:55 PM

@General Armchair LOL love the avatar!
by Nancy 4/29/2011 8:36:05 PM

@Nancy Oh is it showing now? I can't see it here, is that typical?
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:36:35 PM

OK should we predict what tepco will have done by the 31st and what excuse they will give?
n response to the opinion, NISA request Tokyo Electric Power Company to
report on the following matter by May 31st, 2011.

Information regarding the results of geological surveys or faults,
displacements, and lineaments, etc., which are necessary to analyze the
possibilities of existence of the faults which require earthquake-proof
measures, considering that major crustal movements were observed
accompanying the Tohoku-Chihou-Taiheiyo-Oki Earthquake,
www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 8:38:39 PM

@elainekirk My money is on a last minute report explaining why they need more time to complete the report and the usual sunshine and unicorns useless language thrown in.
by Nancy 4/29/2011 8:40:35 PM

(Reloaded page, can now see my avatar :) )
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:40:42 PM

(LOL except on new posts?)
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:41:05 PM

Tepco #4 sfp analysis www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 8:41:36 PM

@elainekirk That works. They finally got somebody skilled enough to lie convincingly?
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:43:27 PM

The plant statistics spreadsheet - still in process but I have some info there for reference spreadsheets.google.com
by Nancy edited by elainekirk 4/29/2011 8:44:37 PM

@Nancy great you are brilliant
by elainekirk 4/29/2011 8:49:38 PM

To accomplish these goals, SNF is stored in water pools and large casks that use air to cool the fuel rods. The pools are often located near the reactor (in the upper floors of the containment structure for a BWR Mark-1 containment). These pools are very large, often 40 feet deep (or larger depending on the design). The pools are made of thick concrete, lined with stainless steel. SNF assemblies are placed in racks at the bottom of these pools, so almost 30 feet of water covers the top of the SNF assemblies. The assemblies are often separated by plates containing boron which ensure a neutron chain reaction cannot start. The likelihood of such an event is further reduced because the useful uranium in the fuel has been depleted when it was in the reactor, so it is no longer capable of sustaining a chain reaction. The water in the pool is sufficient to cool the SNF, and the heat is rejected through a heat exchanger in the pool so the pool should stay at fairly constant average temperature. The water depth also ensures the radiation emitted from the SNF is shielded to a level where people can safely work around the pools.
by dean 4/29/2011 8:53:38 PM

@elainekirk LOL - goddess of cut and paste. :-)
by Nancy 4/29/2011 8:56:14 PM

just alittle more info on spent fuel pool size.. after much reading, I think most of theSFP use only a one tier storage system.. however, there are patents and some references to the ability to put two racks in .. I'll assume that Japan uses only one rack..
by dean 4/29/2011 8:56:15 PM

@dean You mean retrofitting existing pool to use double-stacking? Or designing NEW pools so they can be double-stacked (as far as the patents and references, etc.)?
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 8:57:29 PM

@Nancy Just took a look at the google spreadsheet. A couple of thoughts (I am not sure what this is for so you may very well have considered these points and have decided to do things as you are for your own good reasons):

What about doing things by date? So that each row is one day? That would help relate happenings in one unit with what happened in another. You might have days though where more than one thing happens, so that might be a problem?

Secondly I would imagine you will want to keep adding stuff going forward? I would think starting with March 11 as your first row and going down from there might make more sense?

(Again, being not sure what it's for, you may have your reasons for doing it the way you are, but I'm just wondering....)
by General Armchair 4/29/2011 9:14:24 PM

@elainekirk could you link or post the pic of the damaged pipe i can't follow and thank you for the dumpster with the radioactive marker on the back
by fitter 4/29/2011 9:14:53 PM