Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1120

@Panserbjorne9 @Angie I don't think there's the required temperature to do so any longer. Don't we have a reading from the base of the container that's well below the melting point?
by Reed 5/12/2011 4:30:01 AM

@Veen...yes, and also contact with concrete- boom
by Panserbjorne9 5/12/2011 4:30:09 AM

@Reed but is it working???
by Angie 5/12/2011 4:30:45 AM

@Angie True...I've no trust in any of the sensors at this point.
by Reed 5/12/2011 4:31:40 AM

@Reed NO, i discussed this below with dean..they say 130C but no idea on bottom......must be way higher to melt and steam all water down
by Veenie 5/12/2011 4:31:43 AM

@Reed After the amount of damage at the reactors I do not trust the sensors either.
by Angie 5/12/2011 4:32:59 AM

@Veenie Do you have a link to what states that there id NO H2O in #1? I missed that one...wow.
by Reed 5/12/2011 4:34:01 AM

So TMI was 1/2 core melt... If this is the whole core... Hm.
by Panserbjorne9 5/12/2011 4:35:34 AM

@Markfm And that was something Jo came to long ago... really early on. Kudos, Jo.
by radioguy 5/12/2011 4:37:38 AM

en.wikipedia.org back for a bit.. that link will explain the fuel corium and melt times through the vessel bottom head
by dean 5/12/2011 4:39:08 AM

look under the section reactor vessel breaching ...
by dean 5/12/2011 4:40:44 AM

@dean Thank you, Dean. I just vaguely remember reading the study from Sandia saying that it actually takes a long time to do such a thing.
by Reed 5/12/2011 4:41:14 AM

During the Three Mile Island accident, slow partial meltdown of the reactor core occurred. About 19,000 kg of material melted and relocated during about 2 minutes, about 224 minutes after the reactor scram. A pool of corium formed at the bottom of the reactor vessel, but the reactor vessel was not breached.
by dean 5/12/2011 4:41:45 AM

yeh.. I remember that Reed .. I was thinking up to 24 hours if my memory is right
by dean 5/12/2011 4:42:08 AM

*sigh* sorry guys no Idea where the 28days came from then................
by Angie 5/12/2011 4:42:58 AM

@dean The "Heat knife" effect. Never heard that one.
by radioguy 5/12/2011 4:43:07 AM

interesting radioguy.. my memory says about 30% of the TMI core melted.. can't remember how many tons.. something like 130 or so was eventually removed and moved to Idaho site where I worked..
by dean 5/12/2011 4:45:00 AM

Angie.. no sweat because I"ve heard different numbers depending on the specificl conditions.. a lower percent melt would take longer..
by dean 5/12/2011 4:45:40 AM

*sigh* sorry guys no Idea where the 28days came from then................
by Angie at 9:42 PM

Just got out of REHAB ey ??.....
by Veenie 5/12/2011 4:46:43 AM

@Veenie lmao must be!
by Angie 5/12/2011 4:47:37 AM

Another TEPPYtalk masterpiece:

"The fuel rods probably do not retain the original shape any more."
by radioguy 5/12/2011 4:51:20 AM

@radioguy I wonder who is willing to hose these rods down, you know this is pure radiation steam in your face .........
by Veenie 5/12/2011 4:52:56 AM

bbs have to get the kids from school.............
by Angie 5/12/2011 4:54:21 AM

not sure if you have already discussed but on the pinned link to Tepco's flickr photo album they have some images of Onahama 'Coal Plant' with a packbot, etc. Of course Onahama was one of the 4 plants mentioned in meltdown on 3-11-around 3-12 or 13 when they shut the press down.
by anon 5/12/2011 4:56:06 AM

see www.huffingtonpost.com
by anon 5/12/2011 4:56:27 AM

@anon This? "Aftershocks striking Japan, residents ordered to flee Onahama as the nuclear power plant there struggles to cool the reactor core."
by radioguy 5/12/2011 4:58:15 AM

interesting point on TMI...At 6:56 am, a plant supervisor declared a site emergency, and less than 30 minutes later station manager Gary Miller announced a general emergency, defined as having the "potential for serious radiological consequences" to the general public.In a 2009 article, Gilinsky wrote that it took five weeks to learn that "the reactor operators had measured fuel temperatures near the melting point".[30] He further wrote: "We didn't learn for years—until the reactor vessel was physically opened—that by the time the plant operator called the NRC at about 8 am, roughly ½ of the uranium fuel had already melted. THAT WAS ONLY ROUGHLY OVER AN HOUR... TMI was able to restart pumps and take emergency procedures but the core had already melted by that time
by dean 5/12/2011 4:58:26 AM

here is a vid w/Yoichi Shimatsu who just got back frm Japan who briefly discusses some of the other troubled plants that we are not hearing about in the west
by anon 5/12/2011 4:58:27 AM

good one radioguy... PRIME MINISTER SAYS.. get those fuel elements back to the original shape quickly ..
by dean 5/12/2011 4:59:26 AM

@radioguy-that is a link that references Onahama but the Tepco's Flickr photo album was pinned on your other board and in that photo albu they call Onahama a 'coal plant' and make no reference to the reactors in trouble there but you see them with a packbot-why would they need a packbot for a coal plant?
by anon 5/12/2011 5:00:10 AM

sorry here is the link to Yoichi's vid-having trouble posting it
by anon 5/12/2011 5:00:58 AM

sorry again! Here is the vid link-gremlins I guess www.youtube.com
by anon 5/12/2011 5:02:08 AM

@dean-I disagree on the tmi thing-I was a local back then and remember it well-it ended up they were giving us false rad readings that the NRC could interpret w/a code and they knew it partially melted down-they did not admit this to years later in court and the cases were settled and I guess after that they have changed their story-that is what made me question EVERYTHING-especially watching family and friends die very young from rare cancers and havng effects myself
by anon 5/12/2011 5:05:01 AM

@anon it was "Onagawa" that was the other reactor site with problems right after the big quake.
by bo 5/12/2011 5:06:48 AM

very good anon.. see.. you were there .... good info and appreciate it
by dean 5/12/2011 5:07:39 AM

I always wondered what really happened.. because it always sounded like there were some mad people between the plant, company and nrc
by dean 5/12/2011 5:08:10 AM

that was in the link I posted anon..
by dean 5/12/2011 5:08:52 AM

yes, people frm PA are very blue collar and the workers did not like the lies-so they talked about the meltdown and we all knew it-but i finally read about it years later during the court case-they still vent to this day-we all noticed cancers about 10 yrs out and are still seeing them-a friend (male) was diagnosed w/cancer of the breast, colon, and bladder 2 yrs ago-another family member had a rare rectal Schwanoma seen in the rectum only in Hiroshima-but there were so many young people affected terribly and people dying in their early 40's 10 yrs out-and like i said TMI was nothing compared to this
by anon 5/12/2011 5:15:28 AM

so the readings frm tepco I am convinced are all in code-history always repeats-we can only hope that there are some decent people with a conscience that will speak out and put a stop to this collusion which amounts to mass slaughter-I don't know how anyone on their payroll can sleep at night after what happened in Japan-
by anon 5/12/2011 5:17:45 AM

sorry for the rant-you can delete-goodnight
by anon 5/12/2011 5:18:08 AM

@anon do you know of a good history of the TMI
incident that has incorporated these pieces?
by bo 5/12/2011 5:21:50 AM

@bo -yes, there was a book I read around 10 yrs ago-I have been trying to remember the name of it-I am a speed reader and inhale everything so it's tough-it had a lot about the rad experiments on children and soldiers and the uranium mining, etc, the tmi_i can't remember if Chern was in there so tough to date it this one has some of it: books.google.com'S+SECRET+MEDICAL+EXPERIMENTS+IN+THE+COLD+WAR+three+mile+island&source=bl&ots=BwxdfKw0VN&sig=olai3bBtD3Ly8waowmDVeQtRPUE&hl=en&ei=HnDLTbCAJcnhiAKQ68j6BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA
by anon 5/12/2011 5:30:20 AM

pointscope01.jp

I just looked at this from the beginning of the hour again and decided it's not really useless. Look at the visibility of that first tower, behind the one by R3, then look how the R3 tower is obscured. That is a lot of steam from R3.
by radioguy via Pointscope01.jp 5/12/2011 5:30:23 AM

@bo This video from Arnie Gundersen is pretty informative about TMI and the radiation effect. www.tmia.com
by ms in la 5/12/2011 5:30:39 AM

@anon Let me try that, and see if this works: books.google.com\'S+SECRET+MEDICAL+EXPERIMENTS+IN+THE+COLD+WAR+three+mile+island&source=b
by radioguy 5/12/2011 5:32:32 AM