Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1518

@Peter Melzer Oh, bravo!!
by M.I.A 6/6/2011 1:19:43 PM

@Peter Melzer - The fact is this Ropeik guy may not be a doctor at all. Until 2001 all his contributions to major news media gave his credentials as a journalist and author.. Suddenly after getting backing from the Rockefeller foundation all his credentials got bumped up to DR.....Is this an Honorary degree that is being touted as being "real"? Funny that his client list reads like the who's who of every major corporation and U.S.government agency. Anytime there is public concern for anything, be it: cell phone radiation, BP oil spill, Solar flares, Moon eclipses, Chernobyl forest fires, Terrorism...just about anything that involves "fear" he gets open access to any and all news platforms to spew the same talking points over and over. Seems like he makes tons of coin off of everything from E-coli to hurricanes. Sure what he says has basis in fact and is supported by human psychological reality, it is just he casts a very large net that tries to calm the public for whatever todays fear is and makes alot of money in the process.
by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 1:57:07 PM

en.wikipedia.org
by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 2:19:54 PM

Anyone who is a National Tropical Botanical Garden Fellow is good enough for me :) (Just a side note, from Leth's link. It doesn't have anything to do with his qualifications on risk.)
by Markfm edited by Markfm 6/6/2011 2:24:59 PM

@Lethbridgean , thanks for your insights. I am surprised that a non-PhD could be appointed lecturer at Harvard. But in the big scheme of things that does not matter. That protagonists like him confuse epidemiological findings with private life matters. How many additional cancers we may expect from this disaster and how many will be fatal is of interest to public health officers, scientists, the medical community and, perhaps, insurances. I care about the individual people and their fears no matter how irrational they may be. One way to alleviate fears is providing insights into the causes and finding out what can be done to diminish the adverse consequences. Playing down fears does not help in this situation.
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 2:27:43 PM

@Peter Melzer - I agree with that statement, @mark-fm- I don't agree with your invalid point. Care to enlighten me even more on "Dr" Ropiek's credentials or your motivation for defending him? I heard this guy on our local radio station on the weekend and brought it up to ms in la and NortherCali on the grounds that David Ropiek seems to be the main player in downplaying the seriousness of ALL fears...He replaces one fear with the fear of many, ie; stress, illnesses from stress, auto-immune suppression from stress, stomach ulsers etc. Explaining why people fear is one thing but replacing that fear with other fears is not science it is propaganda. How about explaining @markfm your need to constantly discount my contributions to this blog?
by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 2:40:36 PM

NHK stories in today’s JAIF Earthquake Report: (Fukushima NPP Site) ●TEPCO tests filtering system at Fukushima plant ●Workers at Fukushima plant treated for dehydration ●TEPCO mulls ways to cut humidity in No.2 reactor ●Cesium in seawater near No. 3 reactor falling (Other news) ●Soil sampling begins in Fukushima ●Disposal of radioactive debris to go ahead ●Madarame: Plant guidelines should be fully revised
by Markfm 6/6/2011 2:46:28 PM

This math doesn't seem to work well for me. They have 105,000 tons of water already, increasing at 500 tons/day, but only plan to get tanks that can handle 30,000 tons? Article: More than 105,000 tons of highly radioactive water is estimated to be flooding the basements of reactor- and turbine buildings of the plant….The volume continues to grow at a pace of 500 tons a day. … Starting on June 15th, the utility hopes to decontaminate the water and transfer it to temporarily-installed tanks before returning it to reactors as a coolant…. Two tanks arrived near the plant on Monday. A total of 270 tanks, which have a combined capacity of 30,000 tons, will be installed at the plant.
by Markfm 6/6/2011 2:50:02 PM

Impressive, humidity in #2 building at 99.9%.
by Markfm 6/6/2011 2:51:36 PM

This interview with a TEPCO worker claims there was a loud explosion in the suppression chamber of 4 during the earthquake. Trying to figure out how that would happen when the reactor was shut down? www.telegraph.co.uk
by lillymunster 6/6/2011 2:53:35 PM

Probe poised to take Tepco to task
Utility tardy in venting reactor pressure, lacked plan for multiple crises, ignored historical data
An investigation that will draw world attention gets under way Tuesday to find answers to the critical question: Was there any way to avoid the meltdowns at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant, and were any people to blame?

The 10-member panel, headed by Yotaro Hatamura, professor emeritus at the University of Tokyo, will investigate the cause of the nuclear crisis and possible crisis management errors by the government and Tepco. The panel will compile an interim report in December.
search.japantimes.co.jp
by Panserbjorne9 6/6/2011 2:53:54 PM

@lillymunster i've been wondering that since that interview came out. Curious.
by Panserbjorne9 6/6/2011 2:54:24 PM

Duh, but it's nice to see CNN carry it.
Tokyo (CNN) -- Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant experienced a full meltdown at three reactors in the wake of an earthquake and tsunami in March, the country's Nuclear Emergency Response Headquarters said Monday.
www.cnn.com
by Panserbjorne9 6/6/2011 2:57:57 PM

Couple possibilities. A tank with something flammable (welding stuff) near the suppression chamber fell over/whatever and exploded. The boom was due to a structural failure (since the next sentence says "Cracks started ripping in the asphalt and the sides of the building. ").
by Markfm 6/6/2011 3:02:42 PM

Radioactivity of materials released in Fukushima nuclear crisis revised upward mdn.mainichi.jp "...revised the level of radioactivity of materials emitted from the crisis hit Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant from 370,000 terabecquerels to 850,000 terabecquerels."
by Markfm edited by Markfm 6/6/2011 3:06:25 PM

@lillymunster @Panserbjorne That article is the Sunday Telegraph. Getting the facts correct is not very important for them. British Tabloids.
by jt 6/6/2011 3:08:28 PM

No.1 reactor vessel damaged 5 hours after quake www3.nhk.or.jp "The report says the fuel rods in the Number 1 reactor began to be exposed 2 hours after the earthquake due to the loss of the reactor's cooling system in the tsunami. Its fuel rods may have melted down 3 hours later, causing the damage to the reactor. "
by Markfm 6/6/2011 3:09:39 PM

Japanese retirees ready to risk Fukushima front line www.reuters.com
by Markfm 6/6/2011 3:12:39 PM

Plutonium found in soil at Okuma search.japantimes.co.jp "about 1.7 km away from the plant's front gate"
by Markfm 6/6/2011 3:14:00 PM

@Peter Melzer - I agree with that statement, @mark-fm- I don't agree with your invalid point. Care to enlighten me even more on "Dr" Ropiek's credentials or your motivation for defending him? I heard this guy on our local radio station on the weekend and brought it up to ms in la and NortherCali on the grounds that David Ropiek seems to be the main player in downplaying the seriousness of ALL fears...He replaces one fear with the fear of many, ie; stress, illnesses from stress, auto-immune suppression from stress, stomach ulsers etc. Explaining why people fear is one thing but replacing that fear with other fears is not science it is propaganda. How about explaining @markfm your need to constantly discount my contributions to this blog? How about explaining the tactics used by astroturfers to bury valid points down the page? Everything that you are posting is old news buddy. Thanks for coming out.
by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 3:24:08 PM

@lillymunster , edano posted this story yesterday. Same story in which there is a claim that six soliders died. I imagine that the reactor and suppression chamber of unit 4 contained hot water at the time
.
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 3:24:55 PM

@Peter Melzer I remember the six deaths after #3 blew. I will try to find it.
by Panserbjorne9 6/6/2011 3:31:12 PM

@Peter Melzer Even being in maintenance mode? I assumed the would have drained the reactor while they were installing the new shroud.
by lillymunster 6/6/2011 3:37:36 PM

@Lethbridgean Attacking people and claiming everyone is an astroturfer is contributing nothing to the news or technical discussions.
by lillymunster 6/6/2011 3:39:40 PM

Lethbridgean -- I actually agree with you about Ropiek, wasn't defending him. I found the wikipedia note on his Fellow status humorous, but had to admit that in and of itself it didn't matter (that it was irrelevant regarding his credentials one way or another relative to risk). Concerning news, I try to surf what's around, pull up a listing. Even "old" news is new to many. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree -- I do often find your comments interesting (not in a bad way).
by Markfm 6/6/2011 3:41:46 PM

Found this, from before"... and wounding six workers." Wow that was harder to find than i thought. And i thought that they died, but I can find nothing on it. Most links to sites have it scrubbed. www.msnbc.msn.com
by Panserbjorne9 6/6/2011 3:44:08 PM

@lillymunster Do we have any readings of radiation levels from #4's suppression chamber? I'm seeing a blog post about it being sky high, but the link back to Tepco's official readings, of course, doesn't work. Looks like someone on physicsforums is asking about it too. Makes no sense to have high radiation.
by Panserbjorne9 6/6/2011 3:45:58 PM

@lillymunster - Oh I think it has everything to do with technical and news discussions. If the news is being spun by this "Dr" David Ropiek in every medium (including this one) then it is very relevant to this board. Do I have to remind you what my background is for he record which is very relevent in why yours and Mark's easy discounting of my remarks fall in the realm of suspicious behaviour. Question Authority and since you seem to think you have authority is the reason why I question you.
by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 3:49:16 PM

@Panserbjorne9 , six SOLDIERS were supposed to have perished according to the Telegraph. If true, it would have stirred a lot of attention.
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 3:50:35 PM

Local governments cutting off welfare benefits to some survivors
SENDAI — Local authorities in disaster-hit Miyagi and Fukushima prefectures have stopped providing welfare benefits to some survivors, lawyers and civic groups said Saturday.
search.japantimes.co.jp
by Panserbjorne9 6/6/2011 3:51:30 PM

@Panserbjorne "Most links to sites have it scrubbed "There might be something left in the Reuters blog: live.reuters.com
by jt 6/6/2011 3:52:37 PM

@Lethbridgean , I don't think you would want to drain the vessel. It must quite radioactive because of activation and also hot temperature wise. I remember dean telling us about underwater welding was necessary to repair shrouds.
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 3:53:47 PM

@Peter Melzer hmmm i doubt it. Not hearing about soldiers dying makes more sense from a security perspective than civilians dying. Regardless, in the face of multiple examples of revisionist efforts, obfuscation and deliberate witholding of information, *any* source should be reviewed, IMHO.
by Panserbjorne9 6/6/2011 3:54:49 PM

@Lethbridgean So this guy you mention is a paid shill? So what? It sounds like most people know the guy is a paid shill so stop badgering everyone about it. I have not seen anyone bring up this guys writings or comments so exactly why have you dragged this out to bother everyone about it?
You can disagree with people but keep it civil. If you continue to attack people i'm putting you on moderation, your disrupting the board. You have zero basis for accusing people of being some sort of "secret agents" and it is becoming a pointless distraction.
by lillymunster 6/6/2011 3:57:46 PM

"EFFORTS FOR OPTIMIZATION OF BWR CORE INTERNALS REPLACEMENT" www.iaea.org A paper on replacing reactor internals at Daiichi. @Peter -- You're right, the article mentions "The Removal of the core shroud and most of other internals was conducted by means of Electrical Discharge Machining (EDM) process underwater [5]."
by Markfm 6/6/2011 3:58:35 PM

@nancy dont't know if you seen my post on the drawings, but if you e-mail me an address, I can copy and mail (OK everyone... the mail system does still exist,,, doesn't work well but does get there!) The print is too small to fax (ok get off the floor... faxes still exist also!)
by fitter 6/6/2011 3:59:39 PM

@Panserbjorne9 , makes me wonder about the validity of the info on unit 4's suppression pool. But you never know. I find it intriguing that tepco does release any parameters for unit 4's reactor and reports temps for the SFP only once in a while.
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 4:00:12 PM

@Peter Melzer There are some videos of workers repairing spraying systems with the unit drained. What Mark just posted looks like they did so it with water? There are a bunch of documents on the shroud repair process since FUKU was the first to do it. Those might have technical details about doing it underwater vs. draining. I will see if I can find that document in my pile of links, might take a while. If 4 had water in it or not might matter when it comes to the later explosions etc.
by lillymunster 6/6/2011 4:01:16 PM

six dead after #3 explosion: www.telegraph.co.uk
"As the situation deteriorated, the first explosion, at reactor 3 on March 14, happened at the precise moment that six soldiers from the Japanese Central Nuclear Biological Chemical Weapon Defence Unit arrived at the reactor in two vehicles. The six of them are now dead, buried under flying concrete. "
by Edano 6/6/2011 4:02:26 PM

referring to #4:
"Workers told how the earthquake ripped through the plant, immediately knocking out the main power. A ghastly boom was heard in the suppression chamber of reactor 4, said Kenji Tada, who was there at the time. Cracks started ripping in the asphalt and the sides of the building. "
by Edano 6/6/2011 4:03:40 PM

an explosion in #4 s/c ?
by Edano 6/6/2011 4:04:16 PM

@edano there is a mystery eh :) so tepco pr men are busy scripting a new explanation or will the stick with #3 as the cause and call their expremely brave workers liars?
by elainekirk 6/6/2011 4:06:23 PM

"The Sunday Telegraph discovered that the rest place for many of the Fifty is, bizarrely enough, a beautiful, four-masted sailing ship, the Kaiwo Maru, pulled off a student training voyage to Honolulu and dispatched to a rather different kind of hot zone."
by Edano 6/6/2011 4:07:11 PM

@lillymunster , this may also have implications for current events. Remember that that channel between the SFP and the reactor in which the fuel is passed along has got a gate with air-inflated seals? If that is leaking and there is damage to the RPV - torus vents and cracks in the primary containment, much water they spray in the pool could flow out that way into the basement.
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 4:07:23 PM