Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1511

@Edano absolutely no criticism was sent your way, sir! I am questioning the info that was given (that you have so diligently graphed) by Tepco, as radioguy is hinting.... lol
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/5/2011 8:07:06 PM

funny thing is that all water levels are more or less identical and stable. nearly impossible.
by Edano 6/5/2011 8:08:31 PM

lack of fantasy, i guess.
by Edano 6/5/2011 8:08:58 PM

@Edano Thats EXACTLY why I was saying that lol..... someone - err - some agency is about to get their ass handed to them when/if the media look at these graphs!!!!
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/5/2011 8:10:20 PM

I put a Forensics link on the Community menu of the SimplyInfo.org website. There's a post in there as an information drop about the Reactor 4 issue, but it's also a good place to put questions or answers/speculations that you think are important that won't just scroll away in the scribble.
by radioguy 6/5/2011 8:10:35 PM

@Dennis Tucker Jr Yes I keep looking at the released information and realize that they are not only obfuscating as hard as they can, they are succeeding in making a confusing subject even more obtuse, and they are relying on it being effective so much they release figures that prove they are lying. Unbelievable chutzpah.
by radioguy 6/5/2011 8:12:04 PM

@Edano Nearly identical. Impossible only if any of them hold water at all, otherwise they're going to all look empty. :)
by radioguy 6/5/2011 8:13:12 PM

@Radioguy Re Forensics, can't you just copy it across from Scribble?
by jt 6/5/2011 8:13:18 PM

@radioguy Thanks for the extra link rg. I agree. The temperature readings contradict the water levels, the one graph with the RPV skirt support (probably the best indicator for corium presence) says 'faulty sensor'..... Tepco admits to public that they have meltdowns in all 3 which a)makes it hard to hold water and b0 WOULD DEFINITELY INCREASE the skirt temps!!!!!!! Snowball anyone?
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/5/2011 8:14:27 PM

@jt Perhaps, as a bunch of long cut and pastes. And we have the live blog scrolling in a link under news and info, but the website is more for static output. We're still working on usability. One definite plus to having the stuff, any stuff, in the WordPress blog is that it's all searchable. Scribble is searchable via Google, with spotty results.
by radioguy 6/5/2011 8:17:04 PM

The main thing thats really bugging me is how they say the lower 2 levels of #1 are flooded and we have a steam pipe venting 4Sv/hr... It doesn't fit, they must acquit.
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/5/2011 8:17:40 PM

Imagine how little we'd know if the R1 and R3 explosions had happened overnight.
by radioguy 6/5/2011 8:26:55 PM

@radioguy good point
by jt 6/5/2011 8:27:27 PM

did they abandon the 4 sfp support plans www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 6/5/2011 8:33:04 PM

@elainekirk I'd say that the environment at the plant right now is not condusive to the planned repair of the SFP. Besides, they'd have to empty the pool above to perform that repair, and with the planned decommissioning of the reactors it seems moot.
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/5/2011 8:37:00 PM

@elainekirk and their plan makes no mention of emptying it... Seems assanine to try and install a support on an already compromised floor WITH all the weight still there. Trying to lift (jack) the weight from below seems like it would have a high probability of material failure and would be extremely risky. Says that they should have already installed the steel beam by now yet I hadn't heard a peep about it.
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/5/2011 8:45:03 PM

Worried residents near evacuation zone weigh leaving. www.yomiuri.co.jp
by LM 6/5/2011 8:46:31 PM

@dennis I despair of them totally crazy
by elainekirk 6/5/2011 8:48:11 PM

TEPCO eyes design flaw in hydrogen explosion. www.asahi.com
by LM 6/5/2011 8:49:32 PM

@LM I know a family wants to go but dad cannot afford to go he just has no way of taking his children out of the area I had to go outside and weep earlier he thanked me for my kind words I so wish he had go angry, shouted, anything but thank me for essentially doing sod all :(
by elainekirk 6/5/2011 8:51:08 PM

@Elaine Such a tremendous tragedy...Unfortunately I understand his predicament..3 years ago during the San Diego wildfires we were forced to evacuate for 5 days. If it weren't for help from family we would have had to stay outside in Qualcomm Stadium with the thick smoke. I can't imagine what we would do in a disaster of this proportion and I know all too well what it's like not to have the means to just get up and go. The GoJ needs to move these people.
by LM 6/5/2011 8:59:02 PM

@Elaine I honestly believe the GoJ is fully intending to repopulate the entire evaczone as soon as they can get away with it. They will tell everyone the worst is over plant sunflowers and call it a day. I REALLY hope I'm wrong...but if they were truly serious about safety, the no-go zone would have been extended further and the 20km area closest to the plant would have already been declared a permanent dead zone.
by LM 6/5/2011 9:11:05 PM

@lm their idea of clearing the playground is -remove top layer- remove a second layer - replace top layer - place second layer on top of top layer - Yes @LM they will be planning to move people back

by elainekirk 6/5/2011 9:14:27 PM

@Elaine The joke is that it's not sound science...the cesium is highly water soluble and will just sink down and contaminate the water table as well as be taken up by any vegetation they plant in the turned over soil. I can't believe the world isn't screaming...I would love to ask Kan and Edano if they would move their families to the newly remodeled Fukushima!
by LM 6/5/2011 9:19:08 PM

Per LM's link to Gundersen interview:
"That’s where we are today. We have no reactor essentially, just a big pressure cooker. The molten uranium is on the bottom of the containment. It spreads out at that point, because the floor is flat. And I don’t think it's going to melt its way through the concrete floor. It may gradually over time; but the damage is already done because the containment has cracks in it and it's pretty clear that it is leaking.

So you put water in the top. And the plan had never been to put water in the top and let it run out the bottom. That is not the preferred way of cooling a nuclear reactor in an accident. But you are putting water in the top and it's running out the bottom and it's going out through cracks in the containment, after touching directly uranium and plutonium and cesium and strontium and is carrying all those radioactive isotopes out as liquids and gases into the environment."

www.chrismartenson.com
by Rob in SF 6/5/2011 9:20:03 PM

www.tepco.co.jp
Just looking for a pic of the 3-4 tunnel (still looking) and thought this was worth posting to show the size of these pipes twixt reactors and ocean - more pics in doc translate.google.com
by elainekirk via Tepco.co.jp 6/5/2011 9:20:41 PM

@Elaine That's one of the tunnels to the ocean? Wow!
by LM 6/5/2011 9:22:17 PM

Workers at Fukushima plant treated for dehydration
Two workers at the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant have been treated for dehydration at a hospital.

With 9 workers getting heatstroke, Tokyo Electric Power Company says it will take more measures to ensure the health of workers at the plant.

TEPCO said the 2 workers were installing cables near a nuclear waste disposal facility. Both are contract workers in their 40s. They were sent to a clinic inside the plant on Sunday morning after they said they felt unwell. TEPCO said they were later sent to a hospital in Iwaki City, Fukushima Prefecture, where they were treated for dehydration.

TEPCO said no radioactivity was detected, but one worker was advised to stay in hospital for about a week, and the other to stay home for 3 days.

The company said it is advising workers to wear vests containing cooling gels underneath the gear that protects against radiation, but that one of the 2 workers was not wearing a vest.

As the weather becomes hotter, the working environment at the plant will become tougher for workers wearing protective suits.

TEPCO plans to improve working conditions by setting up new rest areas and securing 2,500 cooling vests.
Monday, June 06, 2011 05:13 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by LM 6/5/2011 9:30:41 PM

TEPCO mulls ways to cut humidity in No.2 reactor
The operator of the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant says it will try to reduce humidity inside the Number 2 reactor building.

Tokyo Electric Power Company says humidity and high radiation levels mean workers can work only for short periods of time even if they wear protective gear.

TEPCO says it plans to reduce the amount of radioactive materials inside the reactor building and then open the doors to lower humidity, now at 99.9 percent. The decision came after the failure of its initial attempt to bring down the humidity level. The company initially thought vapor from a storage pool of spent nuclear fuel was responsible for the high humidity. It installed a device to cool down the water. The device cooled down the water but failed to reduce the humidity.
At the Number 1 reactor, a device to reduce radioactive substances was installed in May. But TEPCO says the device needs to be adjusted for the Number 2 reactor since it has low resistance to humidity. www3.nhk.or.jp
by LM 6/5/2011 9:32:21 PM

Gundersen: "...we’ve got hundreds of thousands of tons of radioactive water. It's not mildly radioactive and here’s the problem:

If you were to mineralize this or filter this, the filters and the mineralizers would become so radioactive that the filters might melt, because they are made of a plastic material, and the other part of it is that the personnel couldn’t get near the filters to change them. So it's a very difficult problem, what do you do with all of this contaminated water, the large volume and the high radioactivity make getting rid of that water very difficult."

www.chrismartenson.com
by Rob in SF 6/5/2011 9:34:13 PM

@LM so tepco advises workers to wear cooling gel vests but doesnt actually provide them but now workers who couldnt magically teleport to a shop to buy one are getting sick tepco will kindly try and find some
by elainekirk 6/5/2011 9:41:28 PM

The Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) will lead the first international, multidisciplinary assessment of the levels and dispersion of radioactive substances in the Pacific Ocean off the Fukushima nuclear power plant—a research effort funded by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation.

“This project will address fundamental questions about the impact of this release of radiation to the ocean, and in the process enhance international collaboration and sharing of scientific data,” said Vicki Chandler, Chief Program Officer, Science at the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation. “It is our hope that through this adverse event, we can increase our current knowledge about various natural and man-made sources of radioactivity in the ocean, and how they might ultimately impact ocean life and health around the world.”
More here:
www.whoi.edu
Image link:
www.whoi.edu
by Rob in SF via Whoi.edu 6/5/2011 9:41:32 PM

@LM : ha, i predicted yesterday, that cooling the sfp will not reduce the humidity !
by Edano 6/5/2011 9:41:32 PM

@you : so this entire action was useless and simply PR.
by Edano 6/5/2011 9:42:37 PM

@Elaine It's so pathetic..their comments about safety are hollow. We're at almost 3 months in...I'm fed up.
by LM 6/5/2011 9:43:40 PM

well, against the dehydration, they could let them work in #2 for a while.
by Edano 6/5/2011 9:45:01 PM

"We need to trace where the radionuclides are going, and how much is making it offshore," says Steven Jayne, a physical oceanographer from WHOI. The research vessel, Kaimikai‑O‑Kanoloa, will monitor radiation levels over 400 square km, crisscrossing the strong Kuroshio Current that runs northward along the east coast of Japan. The radiation spill, Jayne says, also provides a unique way of tracing the Japanese currents. "It's like pouring dye into the ocean," he says. The Kuroshio Current, similar to the Gulf Stream of the Atlantic, is a crucial factor in fish migration patterns and can slow or speed international shipping in the Pacific Ocean.

The WHOI group will monitor water 300 km offshore, an area with large fisheries for tuna and other seafood.

news.sciencemag.org
by Rob in SF 6/5/2011 9:45:12 PM

@edano I doubted it would work as well....2 has been steaming regularly! You're right..it's all about the sound bite timed to come just before the bad news they already know about.
by LM 6/5/2011 9:45:39 PM

Just popping in to let everyone know they rescued the dogs that ended up wandering into the plant. ""From Miho: We caught these two dogs. Now we are in transit to Kanagawa nighttime emergency hospital." "
by lillymunster 6/5/2011 9:46:58 PM

Am I alone in finding the heralding of a new research field based on tracking radiation as it spreads around the globe slightly distasteful? I know it has to be done and I am glad funding has been found , though I have to wonder what governments who spend millions of our money funding IAEA etc actually get in return if a charity has to track the damn stuff
"it's like pouring dye into the ocean" he says
No it is NOT like pouring dye into the ocean!!
by elainekirk 6/5/2011 9:47:25 PM

@Nancy wowee good news I needed that ty
by elainekirk 6/5/2011 9:48:03 PM

@Nancy Indeed...good news!
by LM 6/5/2011 9:52:03 PM

@elainekirk - It's like pouring incredibly toxic concentrated dye in the ocean.
by Rob in SF 6/5/2011 9:52:03 PM

Arnie Gundersen: I think they will be forced to build a building around the building and then, because you need heavy lifting cranes – cranes that lift a hundred and fifty tons, which are massive cranes, to put the put the nuclear fuel into canisters, which then can get removed. That is sort of what happened at TMI, but all of the fuel at TMI was still at the bottom of the vessel. But it was a three-year process to get the molten fuel out of Three Mile Island – four years actually.

So the problem here is that all of the cranes that do that have been destroyed, at least on units 1, 3, and 4. And you can’t do it in the air. It has to be done under water. So my guess is that they will have to build a building around the building to provide enough shielding and water, so that they can then go in and put this fuel into a heavy lift canister.

www.chrismartenson.com
by Rob in SF 6/5/2011 9:52:36 PM

@elainekirk are you referring to the Woods Hole project? I saw that as testing and tracking under the guise of research. The US govt. has had this weird "don't look behind the curtain" thing going on related to testing of any kind. I think what Woods Hole is doing with their research project is a side step around the stupidity and red tape. Research on currents and radiation, call it that if you want to, call it anything you want as long as someone is taking samples and seeing where this all is going.
by lillymunster 6/5/2011 9:54:15 PM