Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1523

So @nancy @pedro how many arrived in the 99 shipment?
by elainekirk 6/6/2011 10:01:11 PM

@elainekirk around 100
by Edano 6/6/2011 10:01:39 PM

@Edano , "given the reactor was not damaged by the earthquake [tepco], the sensors should be working, or not ?" They backtracked on that one. According to Mainichi Daily News "The pressure vessel housing nuclear fuel at the No. 1 reactor of the Fukushima No. 1 power plant or its accessory piping is likely to have been partially damaged immediately after the March 11 earthquake, possibly allowing steam to leak out to the containment vessel encasing it, according to data made public by its operator." mdn.mainichi.jp
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 10:01:42 PM

@elainekirk , always!
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 10:04:10 PM

@Peter Melzer : yep, correct (may .... likely ..... possibly) , but i refer to the water sensors. they show full of water at the time of the meltdown.
by Edano 6/6/2011 10:05:02 PM

@Edano , why would not unit 4 have blown at the same time?
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 10:05:55 PM

@Peter Melzer very nice write up.... I think one of the problems that they have at Fuku and we have here is that the "safety piping" is rated as a class 1, but if you noticed the nitrigen (for the valve control (only one of several reducncy systems) is a class 111 or 11... not as robust... so you lose some control of the valve operation safety.... the drawings I have been looking at do the same thing... the systems are class 1, but some of the control systems to the reduncy of controls are listed as lower class... the same was true on the SFP detail me and Dean were looking at... the pool was class one, but some of the water systems were listed as a lower class, figuring that they would have four days to get water to the pools... these were US plants... NICE FIND!
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:06:59 PM

@Peter Melzer : don't misunderstand me, i do not believe in this hipothesis, but the concentration might have been lower in #4 and it needs an initial spark to explode.
by Edano edited by Edano 6/6/2011 10:07:09 PM

@Peter Melzer The venting systems are going to b one of the biggist rescheared systems out of all of this IMOP.... we still have 21 plant here in the US using hardednd vents... they may not all be the same design though.. but obvious that Fuku did not work well...
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:08:40 PM

@you , as to the long explanation for fitter, it is not at all clear whether this was implemented in Japan like proposed here for the US.
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 10:08:57 PM

@Peter Melzer @you is fitter, I don't know why it comes through that way sometimes
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:09:49 PM

@Edano , that could have been the famous FIRE. However, it sounds so unlikely because the rumps next door was so hefty and also damaged the building of unit 4 considerably that the stuff should have gone off at that point.
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 10:11:11 PM

@Edano One thing every one forgets about #4 it was in Refueling and manitance.... they may have been or had many items that usually are not in the building. and they may have had systems open that would not normally be opened (and I am sure they had valves phyically locked out)
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:11:49 PM

@Peter Melzer : hmmmmmpf ...... by the way - it just came to my brain, the hydrogen must have been transfered before the explosion, because afterwards there wasn't any hydrogen left ..... or not ? ;)
by Edano 6/6/2011 10:12:13 PM

@fitter , I don't understand this either, but you know me from the pic.
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 10:12:34 PM

@Peter Melzer Ya I have t go buy some clothes!!!
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:13:08 PM

@Peter Melzer Really nice article on vents... its going to be important....
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:13:51 PM

Greenpeace claims 40 assemblies of MOX on July of 1999 alaya.net
by lillymunster 6/6/2011 10:15:46 PM

@Peter Melzer @Edano I wonder if the hvh connection you were looking at the other day was the Harden vent flange... edano was it temp/press or water?
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:18:08 PM

wow 22 deaths in germany from EHEC and still no source.
by Edano 6/6/2011 10:18:11 PM

@fitter : that was pressure. or do you mean the bellows ?
by Edano 6/6/2011 10:18:57 PM

ah, yes, Belllows air valve HVH 12-A
by Edano 6/6/2011 10:19:57 PM

@Edano not sure you were asking dean... Yea that's it! is that temp/press?
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:20:38 PM

@fitter "air valve" it is at the top of containment.
by Edano edited by Edano 6/6/2011 10:21:37 PM

On this the low building adjoined to #4 has taken a big blast
by elainekirk 6/6/2011 10:21:59 PM

@you : correction: top of containment !
by Edano 6/6/2011 10:22:18 PM

www.houseoffoust.com

or yes, rpv i really don't know it exactly
by Edano via Houseoffoust 6/6/2011 10:24:11 PM

@Edano Do you think it is a reading on the vent system..
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:24:18 PM

and here it is before it blew and I am just thinking the vent pipe to 3 was gone so hydrogen wasnt from #3 maybe but all those pipes going in tothe low building and the vent pipe coming out sorta makes this non techi think it was from #4 and it was not sfp related to be so low. does any of that make sense?
by elainekirk 6/6/2011 10:24:58 PM

@fitter : i asked because it has a temp sensor. but i do not know what it is supposed to valve. i guess steam.
by Edano 6/6/2011 10:25:22 PM

In 1999, a shipment of 32 assemblies of MOX fuel consisting of approximately, 225kg of plutonium plus several tons of uranium, This load went to FUKU.
Pacific Pintail with its cargo of 8 MOX assemblies, with 255kg of plutonium, produced by British Nuclear Fuels. This MOX was delivered to the Takahama-4 reactor also in 1999 at the same time. Was this ever installed?
In 2001, a second shipment of Cogema/Belgonucleaire MOX was delivered to the Japanese reactor, Kashiwazaki-kariwa-3, operated by Tokyo Electric in Niigata Prefecture on the Sea of Japan coast. The MOX fuel contained approximately 220kg of plutonium. - SO about 32 assemblies. They were never allowed to install MOX at Kashi due to a public vote. So are those rods still stored at Kashi?
Not sure if this is all the MOX shipments or not, what might have been returned and any additional 2001 or 2006 shipments archive.greenpeace.org
by lillymunster 6/6/2011 10:25:25 PM

@fitter , on my screen I got my cap
, but the name is @you.
by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 10:26:34 PM

@you happens when you answer yourself ! you hit the wrong arrow !
by Edano 6/6/2011 10:27:23 PM

@Edano if you were watching to vent, temp/press and they are related... and the US drawing show the hydrogen vent system next to the containment vessel or in the lightbulb (don't have infront of me,.. but I wonder if that is the sensor for it
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:27:31 PM

@Peter Melzer I thought it show to you guys as "fitter" asked someone back int the beginning... on my screen I see it show "you"
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:28:42 PM

@elainekirk According to TEPCO it leaked hydrogen over to 4 before it blew up. Their faulty valves theory might hold some water when they bring up that there were multiple pipes that didn't have closed or functioning valves. But why would 4 sit full of hydrogen for what a day or two before blowing?
by lillymunster 6/6/2011 10:28:44 PM

takahama sent theirs back but fuku didnt and then @nancy Part of the 1999 shipment, intended for Kansai's Takehama plant, was returned to the UK in 2002 due to doubts about quality control. In 1999 and 2001, the shipments contained 60 MOX fuel assemblies for use in Tepco's Fukishima I-3 and Kashiwazaki-Kariwa 3 BWR units, respectivel www.world-nuclear.org
by elainekirk 6/6/2011 10:28:55 PM

@lillymunster this is fitter, sent you a couple of post on the drawings... but I am not dressed and seem to be @you... I can mail you the drawing if you shoot me an address... thougth you just werent interested... bu you might not of known who @you was?
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:30:55 PM

@nancy it couldnt #4 was steaming so had ventilation on the sea side plus there is something else I will try find words
by elainekirk 6/6/2011 10:31:40 PM

@Peter Melzer - thank you for that explaination of the drawing. Just a side note there is other reasons for going from AC solenoid to a DC solenoid(hystersis?) and that has to do with heat generation if the valve doesn't open fully or is stuck while opening. Thank you for confirming the purpose of the rupture disk downstream of the remote operated valve.
by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 10:34:11 PM

@Lethbridgean did you see peters post below about the vent lines... he found a write up
by fitter 6/6/2011 10:36:27 PM

'4 steamed as much as #3 so it had ventilation?
by elainekirk 6/6/2011 10:36:45 PM

Schrödinger's cat is a thought experiment, usually described as a paradox, devised by Austrian physicist Erwin Schrödinger in 1935. It illustrates what he saw as the problem of the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics applied to everyday objects. The thought experiment presents a cat that might be alive or dead, depending on an earlier random event. In the course of developing this experiment, he coined the term Verschränkung (entanglement). en.wikipedia.org's_cat
by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 10:38:21 PM