Japan Earthquake | Page 1524

  • @fitter : yes which reactor do you need ?
    by Edano edited by Edano 6/6/2011 10:43:21 PM

  • EQ 05:37 JST 07 Jun 2011 37.4N 141.5E 40 km M3.7 Fukushima-ken Oki
    EQ 05:53 JST 07 Jun 2011 37.0N 140.6E 20 km M2.8 Fukushima-ken Hamadori
    by estacion 6/6/2011 10:44:11 PM

  • any !!!! are any of the toruses at zero pressure
    by fitter 6/6/2011 10:44:24 PM

  • by Edano via Houseoffoust 6/6/2011 10:44:39 PM

  • by Edano via Houseoffoust 6/6/2011 10:44:39 PM

  • by Edano via Houseoffoust 6/6/2011 10:44:39 PM

  • @fitter no, not at zero pressure, but all are athmospheric pressure (101,325 kPa).
    by Edano 6/6/2011 10:45:34 PM

  • in #3 they are below athmosphere (60 and 80 kPa).
    by Edano 6/6/2011 10:47:18 PM

  • @Edano ok that's what i meant... if the vent valves are opened and the emergcy system was a rupture disk, it would be venting through there.... I don't know location of valves and or the position... but the rupture disk should have let loose unless the valve before was closed. would you agree
    by fitter 6/6/2011 10:48:18 PM

  • @fitter not sure, fitter, .....
    by Edano 6/6/2011 10:49:22 PM

  • @Lethbridgean, @fitter I posted a nicer explanation of Erwin's thought experiment earlier: brainmindinst.blogspot.com . The cool thing about die Verschraenkung is that the cat is dead AND alive in the box until someone checks. he used this to explain that there are two solutions for the spin of an electron in an orbital that co-exist until the spin is determined. One of those things that is hard to imagine. Schroedinger thought the cat experiment would illustrate this phenomenon.
    by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 10:49:26 PM

  • @fitter - yes as long as the pressure(tourus) that the valve was opened at was above the rupture disk burst pressure rating.
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 10:50:05 PM

  • I refreshed, things look better. Fitter is still unclothed though. Back to my hobby horse vents. You can see them nicely perked up on the NW corner of units 2, 3 and 4 before the calamity in the pic. that Elaine posted down below. I still have not a clue what they are for.
    by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 10:52:52 PM

  • @Peter Melzer -Ties into wave/particle duallity. What ever instument yo use to measure whether a photon is a particle or a wave is determined by that said instrument.
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 10:54:37 PM

  • @Lethbridgean have you spent much time chasing the US schmatics... they are quite detailed and interesting
    by fitter 6/6/2011 10:55:24 PM

  • But I am just a millwright and have no reason to know quantum mechanics.lol
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 10:55:45 PM

  • @Peter Melzer nice site and good explanation
    by fitter edited by Edano 6/6/2011 10:55:59 PM

  • @fitter - was spending most of the time since then chasing down memo's and documents on the regulation side of the matter. Who knew what and when stuff.
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 10:57:22 PM

  • @Lethbridgean It must be a nightmare to do "lockout and tag" at one of those plants... the redudency in the valve/control systems are amazing.. Wonder if some of the systems were locked out at the time of the EQ... don't think he workmen were to worried about getting there locks off and some of the remote systems in four may have been locked out (5&6) allso they were doingwork in there
    by fitter 6/6/2011 11:00:55 PM

  • @Lethbridgean have you found anything good?
    by fitter 6/6/2011 11:02:56 PM

  • @fitter - Yes. Very interesting indeed.
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 11:04:13 PM

  • @Lethbridgean are you posting the links or do you use the other board?
    by fitter 6/6/2011 11:04:53 PM

  • @Edano Next time use a "weak measurement" :)
    physicsworld.com
    by estacion 6/6/2011 11:04:57 PM

  • Since the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear crisis, many global consumers have equated "Made in Japan" with "potentially radioactive," hurting business across the country.

    That has fueled a boom in demand for radiation-testing equipment from exporters, such as Toyota Motor Corp. and Fujitsu Ltd., seeking to reassure overseas clients that their cars, computers and other products are safe.

    Read more: online.wsj.com
    by Majj edited by Edano 6/6/2011 11:05:35 PM

  • @fitter - not that computer savvy. PDF's not being my forte. Others have posted the links but they were pretty much ignored.
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 11:06:31 PM

  • @Majj : i have an old mazda, can he be radiated due to "Verschränkung" ?
    by Edano 6/6/2011 11:07:06 PM

  • @Lethbridgean If you have any thing good for the poliical debate, I am consentrating on the polition and regulator boards.... things are way to slack in that area... and the NPP we have now will be around for quite a time
    by fitter 6/6/2011 11:08:08 PM

  • @Edano - I have a new ('95) mazda that was made in Detroit..Go figure.
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 11:09:29 PM

  • Oops 2005 mazda
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 11:09:47 PM

  • @Lethbridgean so is that a japanese or american car ?
    by Edano 6/6/2011 11:11:15 PM

  • @Edano - that's where the confusion (cat)sets in and the car is Japanese until I open the door and "determine" from the tag that it was made in America...My Honda was made in Canada as well. Weird eh?
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 11:14:01 PM

  • @veenie angie is not well so I am trying to help nothing nasty about it just keeping the board tidy :) (lol I think he was playing with you re my comment abotu drunk wobbles lol -Angie)
    by elainekirk edited by Angie 6/6/2011 11:23:00 PM

  • @Edano , I own a twenty-year old Toyota. I know it is dead AND alive!
    by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 11:24:18 PM

  • @fitter , the hardened vents is one issue one can always bring up, because the implementation may vary so much among plants. There may be some that do not use the proper piping. There may be some that do not send the gas through additional filters. You cannot even find out who did exactly what.
    by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 11:28:34 PM

  • @Peter Melzer - the implementation was left up to the NPP Operating companies.
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 11:30:41 PM

  • @Peter Melzer - Here is the NRC link for that letter. www.nrc.gov
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 11:31:43 PM

  • @fitter, the other weak point is the exact construction of the primary containment and torus. There is always steel and concrete, but again how it's exactly done varies a lot and some are deemed less safe than others.
    by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 11:33:10 PM

  • Reliable venting
    capability is also beneficial, depending on plant design and capabilities, in
    reducing the likelihood of core melt from other accident initiators, for
    example, station blackout and anticipated transients without scram. As a
    mitigation measure, a reliable wetwell vent provides assurance of pressure
    relief through a path with significant scrubbing of fission products and can
    result in lower releases even for containment failure modes not associated
    with pressurization (i.e., liner meltthrough). Finally, a reliable hardened
    wetwell vent allows for consideration of coordinated accident management
    strategies by providing design capability consistent with safety objectives.
    For the aforementioned reasons, the staff concludes that a plant modification
    is highly desirable and a prudent engineering solution of issues surrounding
    complex and uncertain phenomena. Therefore, the staff strongly encourages
    licensees to implement requisite design changes, utilizing portions of
    existing systems to the greatest extent practical, under the provisions of
    10 CFR 50.59.
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 11:33:51 PM

  • @Peter Melzer thats one reason i think it will be one of the most major issues discussed until nw fuku thought theres were adaquate, but hey weren't!!!!
    by fitter 6/6/2011 11:34:23 PM

  • Specifically, the Commission
    has directed the staff to approve installation of a hardened vent under the
    provisions of 10 CFR 50.59 for licensees, who on their own initiative, elect
    to incorporate this plant improvement. www.nrc.gov
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 11:36:35 PM

  • @Peter Melzer so now they redesign, but won't know the results till the next accident...
    by fitter 6/6/2011 11:36:45 PM

  • @Lethbridgean the problem is the ncr won't issue design criteria
    by fitter 6/6/2011 11:38:25 PM

  • @Lethbridgean , yep. @fitter, perhaps you can figure out how these problems are addressed at the plant in your neighborhood.
    by Peter Melzer 6/6/2011 11:38:44 PM

  • @fitter - There is more to this matter as well. GE was asked to do the testing of such a design function but neglected to do so. graphics8.nytimes.com
    by Lethbridgean 6/6/2011 11:40:24 PM

  • @nancy are you there?
    by elainekirk 6/6/2011 11:41:55 PM

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