Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1698

All the indications are that it is a significant and unanticipated problem which if they can't fix it could destroy the whole 'Areva magic water purification' solution we have been fed for the past 2 months.
by hudebnik 6/20/2011 8:19:21 AM

I think there is a clear turn happening in the newspapers here, much more freely expressed skepticism. Now, if that can only lead to some investigative reporting...
by bo 6/20/2011 8:22:01 AM

I have a nasty feeling that a lot of the radioactive materials from the cores has flowed out with the constantly injected cooling water and is now distributed through the various basements, tanks and probably groundwater.
by hudebnik 6/20/2011 8:22:37 AM

@bo - yes I think they media have realised that they have been fed 'economies with the truth' since the beginning and that their reputations will be down with Tepco's and the GoJ's if they don't do some proper reporting.
by hudebnik 6/20/2011 8:24:41 AM

The Mainichi Daily News has a VERY outspoken opinion/editorial piece today by a staff writer:

Preventing radiation contamination more important than TEPCO's stock prices
Some people have suggested that I start to write about something other than nuclear power plants, but with the situation as it is, that's not going to happen. The crisis at the Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant is still not over. Far from it, there are signs that it is getting worse. I can't stand by and look at the political situation without focusing on this serious event.
(edit)
Today, announcements from the "imperial headquarters" -- namely TEPCO's releases on its roadmap for bringing the nuclear crisis under control, which nobody believes -- are still being issued.

It is too long to post in full but well worth reading
mdn.mainichi.jp
by hudebnik 6/20/2011 8:28:23 AM

@hudebnik well worth reading indeed and I am just lost for words. There has been a sort of information vacuum about groundwater pollution due to corium meltthrough - this puts that into perspective.
by nls 6/20/2011 8:51:17 AM

Just the water that is in the basements is potential groundwater contamination.
by Ralph Unger 6/20/2011 8:56:44 AM

@Ralph Unger : i believe the water in the basements is groundwater ....
by Edano 6/20/2011 8:58:06 AM

@hudebnik "imperial headquarters" :)
by Edano 6/20/2011 8:58:36 AM

@Edano - absolutely - spot on!
by hudebnik 6/20/2011 8:59:14 AM

I suspect the water path is: injection into containment ----> basements etc ----> groundwater ----> sea
by hudebnik 6/20/2011 9:01:25 AM

If it can get to the ground, it is potentially groundwater I think. It is not like the basement was not cracked by the quake and it is sealed like a swimming pool.
by Ralph Unger 6/20/2011 9:06:26 AM

@hudebnik injection into containment ----> basements etc <----> groundwater ----> sea
in this case they can filter until 2254, and still not get the radiation out.
by Edano edited by Edano 6/20/2011 9:06:38 AM

@Ralph Unger : and so we have free dilution of rad between basement and groundwater ....
by Edano edited by Edano 6/20/2011 9:08:15 AM

Fortunately, most of it will go into the sea.
by Ralph Unger 6/20/2011 9:08:58 AM

There is a fundamental truth in project management that 'projects get late a day at a time', in other words it is seldom a big resetting but more often just incremental small delays, but the effect is the same. Compare almost all of the Tepco 'solutions' which have slipped little by little until they are quietly shelved. The filtering went into service late on Friday, suspended Saturday for 'more testing on Sunday, back in service Monday'. More testing revealed more problems on Sunday and then Monday and service is now Tuesday...
by hudebnik 6/20/2011 9:09:07 AM

I posted this the other night, but it is a good link to both cams and some reactor stats as well. atmc.jp
by Ralph Unger 6/20/2011 9:12:49 AM

NEWS ADVISORY: IAEA wants to send nuclear regulatory review mission to Japan in 2012 (17:45)
by Edano 6/20/2011 9:13:54 AM

I would start by reading the attachments rather then the whole document.
by Ralph Unger 6/20/2011 9:19:07 AM

@hudebnik Remember this, from the 3rd June? I suppose we should be thankful.
TEPCO says contaminated water may overflow: www3.nhk.or.jp
"Tokyo Electric Power Company says that, in a worst case scenario, highly radioactive water may overflow from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant as early as June 20th."
by es 6/20/2011 9:19:09 AM

@bo Remember the Koriyama yogurt?! Well I was in the post office today and asked the person at the counter if I really could order some. He said of course and it is very good as its locally produced. I asked if it was really from Koriyama. He seemed proud that it was. I asked if its safe in light of Fukushima. He said probably...and its very good because it's locally produced. You get the idea. Part of me wanted to scream why are you selling this stuff. But at the same time another part I felt embarrased to have raised the issue...maybe that is the part of me that has lived in Japan for a long time. It is often difficult to speak out here. Anyway, just wanted to get that off my chest! By the way I was in the post office sending parcels as my family and I are moving back to Europe.
by Will 6/20/2011 9:19:50 AM

@will do you know which part of europe ?
by elainekirk 6/20/2011 9:22:31 AM

i wonder why it is not obligatory to use underground power lines for the nukes. it is very obvious that the "flying" power lines will not withstand any earthquake.
by Edano 6/20/2011 9:25:03 AM

@es - indeed I do! @Ralph - according to that report on 31 May the water injection was more like 750 tons/day rather than 500 t/day. #3 alone was receiving 300+ t/day.
by hudebnik 6/20/2011 9:25:46 AM

Underground lines are vulnerable to flooding.
by Ralph Unger 6/20/2011 9:26:43 AM

@Edano - any part of the HV distribution network, even many km away, would be vulnerable and could cause the whole network to fail.
by hudebnik 6/20/2011 9:26:59 AM

High voltage distribution is significantly tricky and dangerous.
by hudebnik 6/20/2011 9:27:46 AM

@hudebnik : yes but in fuku case the major problem was the "last kilometer".
by Edano 6/20/2011 9:28:34 AM

@Ralph - your link 15 mins ago is very useful - @mods please could it be pinned?
done :)
by hudebnik edited by Edano 6/20/2011 9:29:18 AM

TY Hud. :-)
by Ralph Unger 6/20/2011 9:29:47 AM

i know, in america you use flying lines, but here in germany they are nearly entirely underground.
by Edano 6/20/2011 9:30:27 AM

That is usually done for aesthetic reasons, they are harder to maintain
by Ralph Unger 6/20/2011 9:31:10 AM

@Will good lord. It's just an illustration of how deeply internalized these things are.
by bo 6/20/2011 9:32:00 AM

@Edano - this is a true story from a UK nuclear power electrical engineer I was talking to at the weekend. At one nuclear plant in the UK they had enormous problems trying to get the designers/architects to realise that it was all very well having for safety separate power feeds but that the safety margin was much reduced by running them in the same trench...
by hudebnik 6/20/2011 9:32:07 AM

@Ralph Unger : yes, it's more expensive, but safer.
by Edano 6/20/2011 9:32:14 AM

@elainkirk France. I realise there is a certain irony there considering all of France's NPP! Still on balance it is the best option.
by Will 6/20/2011 9:32:17 AM

@Will you are about the 5th or 6th expat I know here who is leaving. Probably a wise decision.
by bo 6/20/2011 9:32:33 AM

We have an odd thing happening here in Houston, the lines insulators are getting dusty because of the drought so they have to hose them down with helicopters. 700 KV lines IIRC.
by Ralph Unger 6/20/2011 9:33:16 AM

@will ironic but as you say best option for you :)
by ElaineKirk 6/20/2011 9:34:19 AM

@bo Thanks. I hope its the right decision. With 2 young children it seems the only option.
by Will 6/20/2011 9:34:40 AM

@Will I'm sure it is. You certainly won't regret it years from now when looking at the graphs of illness spikes.
by bo 6/20/2011 9:35:56 AM

did unit 5 enter the equation through the back door ?
At 9:49 am on June 20, we started fresh water injection to the reactor
wells and pools for temporary storage of equipments of Unit 4 and Unit
5, in order to improve the working environment (to reduce radiation dose)
on the 5th floor of the reactor building of Unit 4 and Unit 5.
www.tepco.co.jp
by ElaineKirk 6/20/2011 9:37:18 AM

@hudebnik : i believe that. for safety reasons, i think it should be obligatory to provide double power lines to npps, one of which must be underground.
by Edano 6/20/2011 9:38:14 AM

@elainekirk Yes and visas are an issue...the UK government has been supremely unhelpful. Not impressed with the misleading information on Fukushima (in my opinion) from the embassy either. Anyway the part of France we are moving to is further away from a NPP than my brother on the British south coast is from a French NPP.
by Will 6/20/2011 9:39:18 AM

@will you will not realise how worried you have actually been until you get there and start to relax I hope the move goes well
by ElaineKirk 6/20/2011 9:43:18 AM