Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1693

by Edano via Gyldengrisgaard.dk 6/19/2011 7:48:02 PM

@edano there is a closer pic of the back of 4 I will go find it
by ElaineKirk 6/19/2011 7:50:17 PM

@Edano Do we know if they had access to the inner upper levels of #3 to remove an upper panel? Maybe they made a hole where best they could, at ground level?
by es 6/19/2011 7:51:41 PM

Edano.. I didn't know quite what to think after reading that..also,, I thought that I read somewhere .. where the #2 panel had been blown out as a protective feature.. not sure on that one tho
by dean 6/19/2011 7:54:36 PM

well, when they drilled holes in 5 and 6, the holes were more decent, like 10 cm diameter.
by Edano 6/19/2011 7:57:28 PM

#2 had a panel knocked out on purpose, they made a hole in the #1 turbine building at some point. It is very obviously a cut hole. A close up of that panel on 4 could give some answers. Most of the panels on 4 left much of the metal mesh in place while the concrete blew away. A nice clean hole with no rebar would be on purpose. A hole with mesh still over would likely be blown out. A hole with bent rebar splaying out the hole on the edges would also be a blast hole.
by lillymunster 6/19/2011 7:58:10 PM

Off to grab a photo and see
by lillymunster 6/19/2011 7:58:19 PM

so i think there must have been doors in the panels.
by Edano 6/19/2011 7:58:23 PM

going to read up too.. be back .
by dean 6/19/2011 7:59:33 PM

@lillymunster "knock out a panel", it's surely not that easy....
by Edano 6/19/2011 8:00:22 PM

this looks like a door !
by Edano 6/19/2011 8:04:41 PM

www.yahindnews.com the original photo
by Edano via Yahindnews 6/19/2011 8:07:20 PM

R4 bottom left hole
by lillymunster 6/19/2011 8:10:04 PM

Looks like a blast hole.
by radioguy 6/19/2011 8:11:30 PM

It concussed the others, too, but they held. Maybe the top row tore loose a bit at the bottoms
by radioguy 6/19/2011 8:14:30 PM

@radioguy : i would think this is one level higher.
by Edano 6/19/2011 8:14:32 PM

2.bp.blogspot.com this is not the right level
by Edano via 2.bp.blogspot 6/19/2011 8:15:30 PM

news.sky.com
The operator of Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear plant has opened the door to one of the reactor buildings to allow workers to install a cooling system, meaning radiation is leaking out.

Workers have entered the building before, but only for brief monitoring visits.
Similar steps have been taken at Unit 1, in order to prevent explosions.
Tokyo Electric Power Co. (Tepco) has insisted the level of radiation will be too small to threaten human health.
by radioguy 6/19/2011 8:18:28 PM

lh5.ggpht.com #2 looks like a door, definitely
by Edano via Lh5.ggpht 6/19/2011 8:19:42 PM

img.ezinemark.com i can't help, but this hole looks different to the one before explosion. ?
by Edano via Img.ezinemark 6/19/2011 8:23:29 PM

This timeline is the meat from this from www.yomiuri.co.jp :

"According to the report, TEPCO asked the government about opening the vents at about 1:30 a.m. on March 12, and the government gave the plan the green light.

TEPCO headquarters then contacted the nuclear plant and said: "We want you to use whatever means you have to open the vents. Do it after we make an announcement at 3 a.m."

However, work to open the vents quickly became bogged down.

According to the report, when workers opened doors in the reactor building to measure radiation inside, a whitish steam poured out and they had to pull back before they could get any readings.

At about 4:30 a.m., all on-duty personnel were instructed not to go near the area due to concerns that an aftershock could trigger another tsunami. About 15 minutes later, hand-held dosimeters and full-face masks--equipment essential for doing this work--were finally delivered to the control room.

Even so, little progress was being made. At 6:50 a.m., the government ordered the vents be opened. However, the TEPCO report contains no mention of work done from 6 a.m. until 8:03 a.m., when plant manager Masao Yoshida ordered the vents be opened just before Kan--who had arrived at 7:11 a.m. to inspect the plant--left by helicopter.

TEPCO spokesman on nuclear issues Junichi Matsumoto has insisted Kan's visit did not hamper work at the plant."
by radioguy 6/19/2011 8:25:11 PM

re #4 that red in nancy's pic could easily be a gas canister
by ElaineKirk 6/19/2011 8:39:10 PM

·From 9:14 am to 11:57 am on June 19th, we injected fresh water into the
reactor well and equipment storage pool of Unit 4 in order to decrease
the exposure dose in the 5th floor of the reactor building of Unit 4 for
working there;
www.tepco.co.jp
by ElaineKirk 6/19/2011 8:57:44 PM

TEPCO races to restore decontamination system

Tokyo Electric Power Company has been working to restore a water decontamination system that had to be shut down after a brief operation on Friday.

The operator conducted about 4-hour experiment on Sunday night to determine the cause of a rapid rise of radioactivity in the system.

On Friday the utility put the equipment into full operation to remove radioactive materials from the highly contaminated water accumulated in the plant.

However, the operation was stopped after about 5 hours as the radiation level in a part of system that removes oil and sludge rose more rapidly than expected.

TEPCO says greater than anticipated amounts of radioactive substances flowing into the system may be the cause of the trouble.

The company investigated the system's ability to absorb radioactive substances on Sunday. After examining the results on Monday, TEPCO may add more equipment to remove oil or lower the amount of water flowing into the system.

Contaminated water is increasing by 500 tons a day as fresh water is continuously being injected into the reactors to cool them down.

The storage facilities for the contaminated water are filling up and a delay in restarting the system could cause the water to overflow in about a week.

TEPCO is planning to reduce the injection of the fresh water.

It wants to start full operations of the water decontamination system, but troubles such as water leakage have been blocking the way.

Monday, June 20, 2011 05:53 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 6/19/2011 9:25:45 PM

TEPCO injects water to No.4 reactor storage pool

Tokyo Electric Power Company has been trying to reduce a high level of radiation discovered in the Number 4 reactor of the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The utility started to inject water into a pool on the top floor which was used for storing large equipment contaminated by radiation on Sunday.

The Number 4 reactor was shut down for a routine inspection when it was hit by the earthquake and the tsunami on March 11th.

Large hardware in the reactor was removed and was submerged in the pool to block the release of radiation.

Tokyo Electric Company discovered that the water level of the pool had dropped to about 1/3 of its capacity as of June 11th.

The machinery is thought to have been exposed and releasing high amounts of radiation.

The operator fears it could hamper restoration work in the Number 4 reactor.

TEPCO says the radiation level on the top floor is so high that workers cannot enter, but if the equipment is submerged again, the radiation level will decline enabling operations to restart.

Monday, June 20, 2011 05:53 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 6/19/2011 9:27:48 PM

Govt to cover renewable energy in quake-hit area

The Japanese government will subsidize renewable energy sources for public facilities in areas hit by the March 11th earthquake and tsunami.

The Environment Ministry wants to revitalize these areas with renewable energy technologies such as wind, solar, and geothermal power generation.

The accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is expected to lead to future power shortages, so the government wants to secure alternative energy sources.

The Environment Ministry will cover all the cost for local governments to set up solar panels for city halls, schools and public halls to ensure a steady supply of electricity.

The Ministry is also planning to partially subsidize environmental impact study costs for private companies looking to enter the power generation business.

The subsidy is to be included in a supplemental-spending bill for the current fiscal year.

Monday, June 20, 2011 05:53 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 6/19/2011 9:29:20 PM

@edano the yellow cap thought to be from #3 but could be #4 was not in a pool was it? it has been clearly visible for 3 months so why are they saying pool?
by elainekirk 6/19/2011 9:32:12 PM

4 out of 5 want nuclear reactors scrapped in Japan

TOKYO, June 19, Kyodo

More than four out of five Japanese want the nation's 54 nuclear reactors to be decommissioned either immediately or gradually in the wake of the crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, a poll reported by the Tokyo Shimbun daily showed Sunday.

Only 14 percent said the reactors should continue operations while 82 percent backed their decommissioning, showing a marked lack of confidence in the nation's atomic energy policy, according to the June 11-12 poll.

In a breakdown, a total of 54 percent of respondents said the reactors should be decommissioned ''while taking into account the power supply-and-demand situation,'' followed by 19 percent who want decommissioning to ''start with ones undergoing periodic checks'' and 9 percent who called for immediate scrapping of nuclear plants. english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano 6/19/2011 9:32:21 PM

@elainekirk : no. i think they mean other equipment that is stored in pools.
by Edano 6/19/2011 9:33:58 PM

the fuel holders may be.
by Edano 6/19/2011 9:34:58 PM

it would help if we knew what stage of the shroud replacement they were at
by ElaineKirk 6/19/2011 9:37:07 PM

@Veenie I think a 9.0 earthquake is sufficient to justify all those leaks. The NPPs around the world are only designed to withstand up to M5.7 earthquakes and Fukushima-Daiichi was (and I emphasize WAS) one of the strongest around the world. Most NPPs would crumble at M7.0 let alone M9.0. I think some people here keep forgetting the magnitude of what happened on March 11TH. [I apologize but I'm getting a bit fed up with all the TEPCO this and TEPCO that]
by Pedro Jesus

Strictly speaking Daiichi NPP has never suffered an earthquake M9.0. Indeed there was an earthquake of this magnitude on 11 March 2011 14:46 JST (05:46 UTC), but its hypocenter was N38.1, E142.9 (130km off Oshika Peninsula ESE) Depth 24km, about 155 km. away from Daiichi NPP. What I experienced was an earthquake of 6 + in the JMA Seismic Intensity (max. 7). In fact there were other regions that suffered a 7, as Kurihara City in Miyagi Prefecture, which is not huge structural damage have been highlighted as opposed to those that have suffered Daiichi NPP.

If it is true what you say (The NPPs are only around the world Designed to withstand up to M5.7 Earthquakes) we are all well screwed, because the odds of that happening again are not small indeed, I'm sure deb or Veenie can enlighten you on the number of earthquakes of M5.7 that occur worldwide each month.

What this board is noted is that the responsibility for what has happened is a result of direct collusion between GOJ (legislator) and TEPCO (operator), the consequences of this accident are of a magnitude unaffordable and there is a high probability of something similar happening again in the not too distant horizon.
by estacion 6/19/2011 9:52:54 PM

@Edano:
Tokyo Electric Company discovered that the water level of the pool had dropped to about 1/3 of its capacity as of June 11th.

The machinery is thought to have been exposed and releasing high amounts of radiation.

The operator fears it could hamper restoration work in the Number 4 reactor.

TEPCO says the radiation level on the top floor is so high that workers cannot enter, but if the equipment is submerged again, the radiation level will decline enabling operations to restart.

They have the means to check the level of the pool # 4 reactor. How have allowed it to reach this point?. If this is not irresponsible, what it is?
by estacion 6/19/2011 10:12:33 PM

back
by dean 6/19/2011 10:17:38 PM

@dean : hi dean, is it possible to estimate how much TBq will be emitted by the 3 cores/corium, given that they will emit all that they have ?
by Edano 6/19/2011 10:20:00 PM

@estacion : it's strange, i agree completely.
by Edano 6/19/2011 10:20:59 PM

yes Edano... some where we were discussing "source term" for each reactor.. have to do some searching to dig it up tho.. maybe lilly can search the web page..
by dean 6/19/2011 10:21:43 PM

your talking only the core?
by dean 6/19/2011 10:22:03 PM

@dean yes. not the sfp.
by Edano 6/19/2011 10:22:26 PM

i think it's difficult because you have to take into account how long the fuel has already been in use.
by Edano 6/19/2011 10:24:01 PM

allthingsnuclear.org check item 2F where they talk about a blow-out panel
by dean 6/19/2011 10:26:34 PM

Edano we can find the enveloping source term or worst case which is what most analysts use
by dean 6/19/2011 10:27:16 PM

I found one place which suggested that the blow-out panel of #2 was opened due to the blast on #3.. all interesting stuff
by dean 6/19/2011 10:32:45 PM

@dean thank you for the term, dean, i immediately found answers:
"Dr. Saji recently calculated that the accidental source term (the inventory at shut down, which could be released if all the reactors blew up) for Fukushima Daiichi units 2-5 is 2,649 PBq for strontium-89 and 171 PBq for strontium-90. (What is PBq? It is 1.0 x 1015)."
www.idealist.ws
by Edano 6/19/2011 10:33:00 PM