Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1701

@all, I am doing the morning news roundup for the group site. I have the RT interview Bo just posted, a WSJ article on restarting water treatment and the DailyMail story on the issues evacuees are struggling under. Any others that should be added that I missed?
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 1:52:51 PM

@bo Some background on Nishiyama...
"Hidehiko Nishiyama began his distinguished career in public service in 1980 when he entered the Ministry of International Trade and Industry (MITI), shortly after graduating from University of Tokyo with a Bachelor of Law degree. He later received an LL.M from Harvard Law School in 1984. He worked his way up through the ranks of MITI when in 1995, he was appointed Director, Financial Cooperation Office, International Trade Policy Bureau. After briefly serving as Director, Public Relations Office, Minister’s Secretariat in 1997, he was sent to New York in 1998 as Executive Director of the New York Center of the Japan External Trade Organization (JETRO). After MITI was reorganized as METI in 2001, Mr. Nishiyama became Director, Americas Division, Trade Policy Bureau. After two Policy Planning and Coordination Directorships, both in the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency and later in the Minister’s Secretariat, he was appointed Director-General, Electricity and Gas Industry Department, Agency for Natural Resources and Energy in 2007. He assumed his current role in 2009 as Director-General for International Trade Policy and as APEC 2010 Senior Official Meeting Chair-designate." [ www.japansociety.org October 6, 2009]
by es 6/20/2011 1:54:11 PM

only think I can think of lilly is, are there any significant comments from the cam's on site?
by dean 6/20/2011 1:56:26 PM

US nuke regulators weaken safety rules: news.yahoo.com
by bo 6/20/2011 1:57:55 PM

@es so Nishiyama is a total insider. He certainly talks like one!
by bo 6/20/2011 1:58:58 PM

@bo Yep
by es 6/20/2011 1:59:18 PM

@dean Not that I know of.

@ES, this guy sounds like a policy and PR guy. NISA is the nuclear arm of METI, shouldn't they have someone with extensive nuclear experience or knowledge in that office? Gotta love politics...
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:02:12 PM

in the hierarchy of reporting,,, WHO is NRC's boss, and who do they, take orders from to have balance and checks? About the only thing I see is congressional hearings which to me are a show stand.
by dean 6/20/2011 2:03:11 PM

Is there a clear sense at all about where all the water in the basements has come from? I noticed @Edano mentioning that it was ground water. Is it too much water for it to be from cooling operations?
by bo 6/20/2011 2:07:04 PM

@lillymunster Exactly. Sigh.
by es 6/20/2011 2:08:28 PM

bo, at this point I believe that it's impossible to accurately answer that question after all the spraying, flooding, leaking, transfering etc. and all the colored protective spray drifting in.

by dean 6/20/2011 2:09:30 PM

Thanks dean
by bo 6/20/2011 2:11:11 PM

lilly did you see in the congressional hearings where one senator was pushing the NRC to admit that the 'STATES' have to final say in whether they want nuclear power in their state and it cannot be mandated by NRC. He really wanted to point out disconnects. There is a major tangled web of authority, rules, recommendations, citations etc that exist and I think at the bottom line.. the ole profit of huge utilities usually wins out.
by dean 6/20/2011 2:12:13 PM

yw bo
by dean 6/20/2011 2:13:33 PM

@lilly, one item that hasn't been talked a whole lot about is "projectiles" as a result of all the explosions. It's likely that the #3 explosion rocketed projectiles in all directions penetrating buildings and doing damage that we don't even know about. In addition do you have a clear shot of the side of #4 building after the #3 explosion which may show holes in the building etc. I'm thinking there was a whole lot of damage done by the velocity of these projectiles, even those doing damage to the containment.
by dean 6/20/2011 2:22:09 PM

Al Jazeera interview with plant worker who is speaking out
by bo 6/20/2011 2:24:53 PM

@dean I have one image from between 3's explosion and 4's explosion. It is the digital globe overhead shot. It does show some of the side views of 4 but is at a more overhead angle. What can be seen in that image shows undamaged but might be worth a re-look to see if we missed something. There seems to have been possibly two holes at the lower levels that are in question. The one we saw yesterday and possibly one down low on the backside near 3. I also want to go look at the refueling garage on 4. The wall panels are blown out. This is assumed to be from the large blast at 4. I want to make sure it wasn't somehow involved in 3's if I can get a good view of it. I will probably have some photos modified later today after I get some work done this morning.
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:26:45 PM

@dean , gm, I believe the electrical transformer station was hit in its front gates.
by Peter Melzer 6/20/2011 2:29:11 PM

I have had the impression that GE, in cooperation with USA govt and japan gov't provided the prints etc for the bwr mark 1 plant, however, japan bought that design and then instituted any changes deemed appropriate by the utility and nuclear regulatory agency then in japan. I would assume that from a legal standpoint, GE was excused from any legal liability and only consulted, GE later could have or the NRC could have "suggested improvements like the vent lines etc" but it was up to japan to determine what they would do ..
by dean 6/20/2011 2:30:01 PM

yes @ Peter and good morning
by dean 6/20/2011 2:30:17 PM

@Lily....river falls short of Nebraska nuke plant shutdown news.yahoo.com
by wrshpr 6/20/2011 2:31:24 PM

Something else we may want to think about is what could TEPCO do to buy some time with the water situation? They are out of room and even if they can keep the water cleaner system going it will still be a big problem and so far the only solution seems to be dumping in the ocean? Are there some other alternative water storage technologies they could use? I had thought these would be better than nothing and they do have some land behind the plant that is open and flat that could store these. www.hydrologicalsolutions.com
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:34:02 PM

@lillymunster , like we suggested many times: LINED PONDS! One could be dug on the soccer field.
by Peter Melzer 6/20/2011 2:35:49 PM

Garbage incinerators will change routine to increase power output during peak times in Japan. www.bellinghamherald.com
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:37:24 PM

@Peter Melzer Yes. How long would it take to excavate? They have a large baseball diamond south of the plant and the soccer field on the north end. They could use one for bladder holding while digging at the other. It would be worth doing if it meant no or less water would be dumped in the sea.
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:39:02 PM

good article wrshpr.. here is a logic test that baffles me. case 1 cooper is operating and is 1 foot away from reaching a point where they say.. lets shut down,,, "1" foot,,, case 2 calhoun is shut down and they say.. we're leaving it shutdown until the flood subsides, in case 2 calhoun has "10" feet to go.. This to me is the type of logic that gets plants into trouble.. here are the other facts, A spokesman for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission said the NRC thinks OPPD managers have "done everything that they need to do to respond to the current conditions" at the nuclear plant.
Over the weekend, several northern Missouri levees failed to hold back the raging floodwaters, and the hole in a Holt County levee that ruptured last week continued to grow.
Recent rain increased the amount water in the already swollen river, and floodwaters from the breached levee south of Hamburg, Iowa, rushed back into the river over the weekend through a notch cut in the levee south of the last week's break.
The floodwater in Missouri has covered thousands of acres of farmland and soaked numerous homes and cabins. The recreational community of Big Lake, which is home to a state park and less than 200 people, is being threatened by the floodwater.
Most of Big Lake's residents have already evacuated. The area 78 miles north of Kansas City has been high for the past couple weeks, has experienced major flooding in three of the last five years.
by dean 6/20/2011 2:39:55 PM

@Peter, do you remember what was suggested to line them with? I remember something that neutralized radiation possibly imbedded into concrete or another substance.
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:40:10 PM

MY BOTTOM line.. they have atleast 5 precursors to shut down cooper now,,,but, I'll bet some exec is thinking.. stock shares, bonus, profits.. unbelievable
by dean 6/20/2011 2:40:46 PM

@Dean Cooper Station is run by Entergy for NPPD. Ft. Calhoun is run by OPPD employees. I think this is why. Entergy won't shut down because it will lose money and likely they lose money if Cooper isn't running even though they are contracted to run it for NPPD
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:41:44 PM

@Dean....what kills me is that like a lot of other processes in life, isn't shutting down and re-starting a nuke plan relatively risky when compared to "normal" operations, at least on some level....so it baffles me that they will do it a bit more "on the fly" once certain markers, which inevitably are coming down the road do in fact arrive. I think part of it must be that the people who are making the call really belive in nuclear, and really believe that Fuku, et.al. is "super isolated" incidents, and that it really can't happen to them because of such and such.
by wrshpr 6/20/2011 2:43:01 PM

my point exactly lilly, I vote.. shut cooper down and get both of them secured
by dean 6/20/2011 2:43:23 PM

I would think shutting down Cooper now while they have a bit of time would be safer than doing it in a rush as the water hits the top of the sandbags.
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:43:44 PM

@lillymunster , they seem to use these a lot in Japan. Any country with little space must consider this option to minimize the trash in landfills. The technology fell in disfavor in Germany in the seventies because of dioxin. It may have improved it clean up capabilities. I understand why this option is considered there. If a highly effective filtration system was available to retain the radioactivity, incineration might be used for radioactive waste. However, adequate filtration is to be understood as a great IF.
by Peter Melzer 6/20/2011 2:44:02 PM

Maybe people need to start sending NPPD emails asking them to shut it down?
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:44:23 PM

@ Peter I like the evap pond idea, the gov't has been raising the limits on things so why not get that water out there and start the evap process.
by dean 6/20/2011 2:45:16 PM

@Peter Melzer I think the trash incinerators in question are the ones that burn paper trash from local residential and businesses. They have to put their burnable trash out in a paper bag and it goes separate from the rest of their trash. I was reading up on that on one of the Japan alt energy blogs.
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:45:55 PM

true lilly, a group letter sounds like it's in the wind.. like was done before.. any residents in the area or on here that could draft and I'm sure we can get signatures
by dean 6/20/2011 2:45:57 PM

@dean I was thinking directing people to their online contact form or email address and ask them to email them. Twitter for this would be great, we could put it on the group site and ask people here. If we could get that to be picked up like the rumor were it might generate enough emails to make NPPD respond.
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:47:26 PM

tweeter in Japan with 32k followers asking for more nurses to come forward to talk about the stillbirths that are happening (unverified if official=verified)
by ElaineKirk 6/20/2011 2:48:17 PM

good idea lilly
by dean 6/20/2011 2:48:26 PM

I have to go to the office here and will return... PEACE to all
by dean 6/20/2011 2:49:37 PM

Lilly, I found this NRC report admonishing a plant: www.docstoc.com . It provides a good example that the NRC treats operators with velvet gloves. After you j=have seen the damage that safety valves sustain on the CCI site: docs.google.com , it makes you wonder whether the stuff works in a true big-time emergency.
by Peter Melzer 6/20/2011 2:50:34 PM

Cooper's alert level is 902 leaving half a foot to go, natural grade at the plant is 903. At 902 they shut down and sand bag internal doors. I would assume that means at 903 they expect potential problems
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:50:45 PM

Thanks dean, later.
by bo 6/20/2011 2:51:15 PM

I will write up something short for the group web and something to pin on here. Elaine would it be better to send out tweets on it by having Veenie do it since he links back to the website or would a couple of us tweeting it with the right # tag likely get it out there well enough?
by lillymunster 6/20/2011 2:53:34 PM