Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1771

Saudi Arabia wants in on the wonderful Nuclear Power programs.."The Saudi government has said it will present a comprehensive energy strategy later this year. Prince Turki said the kingdom was working on developing wind, solar and nuclear sources to avoid sapping oil exports. online.wsj.com
by RBeaner 6/27/2011 7:12:20 PM

@edano it is good that that has been reported
by Elaine Kirk 6/27/2011 7:13:18 PM

We all have to deal today with toxic contaminanants, "the journey from methylmercury poisoning in the last century to the radiation crisis of today" and add PCB's www.chinadialogue.net
by RBeaner 6/27/2011 7:17:47 PM

Fukushima: World's Worst Industrial Disaster Reveals How Nation States Are Powerless to Protect Us from Advanced Technology bit.ly
by Panserbjorne9 6/27/2011 7:19:36 PM

@all Let me drop this into our investigation mill. ex-skf.blogspot.com found this FAX in the 100,000 documents that NISA dumped on the 24th. He translates it as a TEPCO dispersion map they did on the 12th, and as he says:
"At the bottom, it looks to me to be saying "amount of noble gas released: 6.01E+17 becquerels", or 6.01 x 10^17, or 601,000,000,000,000,000 becquerels or 601,000 terabequerels."
by RadioGuy 6/27/2011 7:19:49 PM

sorry...10,000
by RadioGuy 6/27/2011 7:20:04 PM

by RadioGuy via 3.bp.blogspot 6/27/2011 7:20:25 PM

@RadioGuy Oh my my that is scary but possible yes?
by Elaine Kirk 6/27/2011 7:23:11 PM

hi @all, many steam from SFP #4 (rest of #3?), seems boiling, normally in the morning there is no steam (cooling after saving water at night by Tepco?)
by Puc 6/27/2011 7:24:58 PM

@Panserbjorne9 Wev'e experienced industrial accidents, or man made accidents that killed >200000 people in a day, Fuku doesn't compare. Definitely not good, definetely a problem but not in the realm of say a dam failure.. Banqiao Dam en.wikipedia.org or Bhopal, 10-20,000 dead and many more ongoing ilnesses en.wikipedia.org , these aren't to say we should go on blindly with nuclear power, but some perspective might be usefull.
by RBeaner 6/27/2011 7:26:18 PM

Do we simplify that number as .6 EXA-bequerels? In the first day? Wow. That's why I wanted to bring it up: to see if this is reasonable, and to check the translation, though exSKF seems to be fluent. Past translations have panned out.
by RadioGuy 6/27/2011 7:26:27 PM

@RadioGuy Simulation, Kind of a "what If", "The simulation is in the 11,000 documents that the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, regulatory agency..." ex-skf.blogspot.com
by RBeaner 6/27/2011 7:28:37 PM

@RBeaner I disagree with this line of logic. It's minimizing in the same way comparing ingested rads to transient rads is a false comparison. Some estimates put Chernobyl at 900,000 deaths attributable. Tragedies with instant deaths always grab the headlines and records, but that's because anything that takes decades to kill can be discounted as unprovable by that time.
by RadioGuy 6/27/2011 7:30:33 PM

@RadioGuy I think it is def worth taking seriously and looking for further info there must be other docs that would help support/query it
by elainekirk 6/27/2011 7:30:51 PM

@RBeaner Yes I get that. It's probably the worst-case term. But that's a good number to know, no?
by RadioGuy 6/27/2011 7:31:07 PM

@RadioGuy "a good number to know, no?" absolutelely...should have been released as a possible scenario. I agree with that, but it is just a simulation.
by RBeaner 6/27/2011 7:32:27 PM

If that FAX is the answer to someone's question "How bad could this be? Worst case." That is a valuable piece of information.
by RadioGuy 6/27/2011 7:32:29 PM

And we have no idea if their simulations are as good as ZAMG's or NILU's proved to be, but I'd have to assume they had the same models that SPEEDI used.
by RadioGuy 6/27/2011 7:33:46 PM

@RadioGuy Comparing internal to external, a much maligned science. When a Health Physics (HP) tech looks at external, it is easy to read from dosimetry or extrapolate from dose rate in areas entered. When Internal radioactivity is taken into account, the LIFE of the radioactivity in the person is taken into account at one time. These aren't guesses, they are scientific assessments. Internal and external exposures can then be combined for a total effective dose. ((Some of that internal dose may actually occur over the next several years, but it is applied today, to be conservative))
by RBeaner 6/27/2011 7:37:51 PM

Oh, btw, on that topic in an oblique way, I finally had time to look through the stuff I grabbed from that ZARDOZ folder on NILUs server that SENSE went on about for a while. It appears to be the term folder for their simulations, covering the whole set of initial terms in the run that ultimately averaged out to the accepted simulation. As such the images range from OHGODWE'RERALLGONNADIE to a single bloc of blue covering the entire map to no map at all because it's all white. I can see why the ones SENSE pulled out looked so scary, but they were outliers and as such discarded in the average.
by RadioGuy 6/27/2011 7:40:48 PM

@RBeaner I'm actually not referring to it in that sense, but in the sense of "x.xx Bq of Cs-137 is no prob because it's less than blah-blah-blah-meaningless-comparison chest xrays."
by RadioGuy 6/27/2011 7:44:07 PM

@Puc There was considerable steam this time yesterday. Yesterday could have been watering but unlikely they would water two days in a row. Some things that we have been trying to look at when there is steam is the current local temp-wind-humidity and the newest plant statistics. Let me go do some looking..
by lillymunster 6/27/2011 7:44:18 PM

Hi all! @Lilly @Puc Just looked at cam...although it's not streaming right now for some reason....Whenever it's raining, day or night, the steam is much heavier. It's been raining a lot lately!
by LM 6/27/2011 7:47:19 PM

Current weather at Fukushima: 19c 94% humidity 2mph wind. So moderate temperature, low winds and high humidity. Temperature for #4 spent fuel pool is 91c so it has gone up a degree since yesterday. #3 spent fuel pool was down in the 60's. It sounds like #4's fuel pool is running hot. With high humidity that is likely the source today.
by lillymunster 6/27/2011 7:49:04 PM

@All, does the tepco live cam works or it is just mine slow internet.
by DT 6/27/2011 7:49:10 PM

@DT It's not functioning for some reason.
by LM 6/27/2011 7:49:58 PM

@DT I could not get it either. It seems to hang there trying to reach the feed.
by lillymunster 6/27/2011 7:51:29 PM

Fukushima to Fort Calhoun: Radiation threat, data manipulation. By Deborah Dupre . Too little too late

From Fukushima to Fort Calhoun nuclear facilities, distrust of government and industry is increasing as are human rights to health, safety, and security violations according to recent reports in Japan and the United States. In the Fukushima area, pregnant women and children are now being provided radiation monitors to wear, after not told about the danger they were in, nor provided sufficient ways to flee harm's way. Likewise, Americans have been denied easy access to radiation data, information about the threat of nuclear fallout from the Fukushima atomic catastrophe, and it's own nuclear facilities' threats.
In the Fukushima area, approximately 300,000 children aged 14 or younger, including children evacuated out of the prefecture and approximately 20,000 pregnant women will be given wearable radiation meters. The government is giving to each municipality up to 15,000 yen ($186) per dosimeter for those eligible, according to a recently released "extra budget proposal" reported in the Asahi.com. www.examiner.com
by Majj 6/27/2011 7:51:52 PM

@lillymunster It's easy to look at that temperature and think of it as uniform through the SFP. It's not, though. If the pool is 90C at the sensor, you can bet there are steam bubbles rising from the heat source.
by RadioGuy 6/27/2011 7:51:54 PM

cdn2-b.examiner.com Barefoot Doctor type Radiation Map for and by the people: People turning to each other for radiation data collection and mapping available for public view. Credit: Shigeru Kobayashi/Pachube Citizen Group (blog.pachube.com/)
by Majj via Cdn2-b.examiner 6/27/2011 7:54:04 PM

@LM @lily Yap, same here.
by DT 6/27/2011 7:54:22 PM

@RadioGuy Simply put, " Sievert relates the absorbed dose in human tissue to the effective biological damage of the radiation. Not all radiation has the same biological effect, even for the same amount of absorbed dose." www.encyclo.co.uk The Sievert is a measure of Biological Damage, forget dose for a minute. Biological damage can also occur from a punch. If I did a study, I could equate a certain punch to sieverts, or a certain amount of E-Coli. A certain amount of Cesium, taken into the body, is going to be there for a fairly consistent period of time. The Dose or damage from that internal emmitter can be calculated, and it is all assessed at that time, to give it maximum emphassis.
by RBeaner 6/27/2011 7:54:26 PM

@lilly @LM Cam from the north looks into the sun/light, guess you can reckognize steam better from the south. Cam from the south doesnt work since hours, in moment from the norht not working too
by Puc 6/27/2011 7:54:56 PM

@lillymunster, you may remember whether mox fuel requires specially designed control and safety rods.
by Peter Melzer 6/27/2011 7:55:09 PM

@Puc The TBS cam (from the south) is currently working, it's just cloudy so nothing is visible except the grey although some sound can be heard if you have speakers. The TEPCO cam (from the north) went off less than half an hour ago but is back now.
by es 6/27/2011 8:01:24 PM

The cam is back now.
by DT 6/27/2011 8:01:27 PM

could the flashes people see on the cam be Japan's famous fireflies? search.japantimes.co.jp
by elainekirk 6/27/2011 8:07:37 PM

@Elaine I have wondered just that! Why not?
by LM 6/27/2011 8:08:30 PM

@LM I think they may be too bright but maybe bo or will or dh could tell us
by elainekirk 6/27/2011 8:17:10 PM

Fort Calhoun Nuke Plant: Flood Water Has "Seeped" into the Turbine Building But "Everything's Under Control" I guess it all depends on the definition of the word "seep". ex-skf.blogspot.com
by Majj 6/27/2011 8:17:20 PM

@Peter Mezler There'pdfs\_moxqc.pdf
"The boron in the reactor control rods is less able to absorb the more energetic neutrons thus the control of the reactor is less effective. For the same reason, boron introduced into the coolant of pressurized water- and boiling-water reactors in an emergency shutdown will be less effective. This reduction in the efficiency of control rods and borated coolant has an adverse effect on reactor safety.
...
This reactivity is compensated by control rods, so that the total neutron absorbing capacity of the control rods in the fuel assemblies must be greater than those used for a core fuelled only with uranium dioxide."
by es 6/27/2011 8:18:05 PM

@Elaine Good point!
by LM 6/27/2011 8:18:10 PM

Doesn't it all sound familiar for people who have been following Fukushima?

Hypothetical progression of the minor "incident" at Fort Calhoun, after the established Fukushima model:
"Everything under control, buildings are watertight."
"Well, there was some "seepage" in the turbine building, but everything is secure and safe. It's all part of the plan."
"Well, the turbine building is actually flooded, but the reactor building is secure."
"Well, there's some water puddles in the reactor building, but the Containment Vessel is secure."
"Well, ....."
by Majj 6/27/2011 8:21:08 PM

@es , thanks, I was actually wondering whether the black smoke we sometimes see emanating from unit 3 was produced by smoldering graphite.
by Peter Melzer 6/27/2011 8:21:52 PM

Radioactive ash found in waste incineration plant
An operator of waste incineration plants in Tokyo says it has found a high density of radioactive materials in ash at one of its plants.

An Edogawa ward plant, which handles general household garbage, detected 9,740 becquerels of radioactive materials per kilogram of ash.

The ash was collected from a device to filter exhaust fumes.

The plant's operator, an organization jointly set up by Tokyo's 23 wards, believes that radioactive cesium built up through the incinerating process.

But it says there is no danger of the toxic substances escaping into the environment as they were trapped by the filter.

Legally, the plant can only bury ash registering 8,000 becquerels or less per kilogram. www3.nhk.or.jp
by LM 6/27/2011 8:22:16 PM