Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1843

@lillymunster Does that mean that workers have access to reasonable courts for redress of wrongs?
by RBeaner 7/6/2011 1:31:41 PM

This brings up a larger issue. All these workers will have health issues later on, as Elaine mentioned it could potentially extend to their kids. What will be done in the years after to help these people?
by lillymunster 7/6/2011 1:32:05 PM

@dean yes, grabbed the list. I put out a list of search terms if anyone was looking for a way to pitch in. I will start in on it at some point here soon also.
by lillymunster 7/6/2011 1:32:59 PM

@Elaine Kirk I shouldn't have said stupid is as stupid does, coy reference to a movie, BUT I believe people and workers should not get involved in things they don't understand, until given that understanding.
by RBeaner 7/6/2011 1:33:17 PM

@RBeaner access, possibly. Reasonable, hardly.
by lillymunster 7/6/2011 1:33:28 PM

@lillymunster I absolutely do not agree that these workers are going to have health issues. I don't consider employment at reasonable terms ( mutually aggreed by worker and employer) to be exploitation. As long as truthfull information is provided both ways, employer to employed and worker to employer.
by RBeaner 7/6/2011 1:35:52 PM

@RBeaner we all bring our children up to be aware of risk, that fires can kill, that certain plants are poisonous, that animals bite , it is a natural part of parenting and whilst growing children safetly learn much for themselves through observation andd word of mouth the foriegn workers will have this built in knowledge
BUT there is no life experience that can teach them about radiation risks
by Elaine Kirk 7/6/2011 1:38:12 PM

@lillymunster access, possibly. Reasonable, hardly. Then that is a problem for the people of Japan, not the GOJ. The GOJ reflects and does the desires of the people, over time. Just as in any democracy, over time, the gov reflects the desires of the people, both ignorant and informed people that is.
by RBeaner 7/6/2011 1:38:50 PM

online.wsj.com workers detail lax safety practices at the plants
by dean 7/6/2011 1:42:55 PM

Mr. Sakamoto, a junior-high graduate, says he feels a "mission" to help tame the national crisis, but at the same time jokes that he's too dumb to be scared. "Smart people know about sieverts and becquerels, so they've really got this sense of self-preservation, fear, suspicion," he says. "When you think about it, it's a real plus to be uneducated and ignorant."
by dean 7/6/2011 1:44:09 PM

@Elaine Kirk ....there is no life experience that can teach them about radiation risks ... I generally agree with that statement. I hope (and pray) that sufficient watchdoggig is going on to ensure these workers are informed and trained. Here, they would definitely recieve and have access to (outside the company) assistance in understanding the hazards. Japan is a modern country with an impressive (though depressed) economy. If they don't have these safety nets and worker protective measures in place, then I will have a more disdainful impression of the PEOPLE of Japan, than my previously impressed impression of them (Iv'e never been there().
by RBeaner 7/6/2011 1:44:22 PM

@dean ....Life Expectancy Tied to Education "
those with more than 12 years of education -- more than a high school diploma -- can expect to live to 82; for those with 12 or fewer years of education, life expectancy is 75." www.washingtonpost.com
by RBeaner 7/6/2011 1:47:23 PM

@RBeaner the people of Japan have felt that foriegn workers are not fully imformed of the risks of their employment nor are they adequately protected from risk and as their government appears impotent or unwilling to intervene in a structured fashion the people of Japan have turned to the international community for help.
Given that they have many concerns for their own welfare I applaud the concerted effort that the people of Japan are making to try to protect foriegn workers
by Elaine Kirk 7/6/2011 1:49:05 PM

@dean The biggest risk factors — smoking and obesity. Less educated people apparently smoke more and eat more fast foods or other unhealthy foods, putting on the pounds and increasing their health problems. psychcentral.com
by RBeaner 7/6/2011 1:50:10 PM

@Elaine Kirk I see no "concerted effort". Where were they 12 years ago at that plant in 1999. The people of Japan have their own destiny in their own hands. We don't live in a perfect world, and democracy isn't perfect, but over time, the people get what the majority want. I assume you are saying the majority of Japonese people could not care less about the "plight" of the foriegn worker-bees. Come on, this is a modern country with modern opinion avenues open to them, if they choose to use them. Wer'e not talking No Korea.
by RBeaner 7/6/2011 1:55:30 PM

One thing I have learned over the years is that individuals are rarely in control of what their government does. In recent years there has been more of governments going against the will of the people and even with elections it can be hard to get government to respond to the people's needs. Instead they tend to operate in favor of big companies with very deep pockets.
by lillymunster 7/6/2011 1:56:01 PM

Japan has over 80% not wanting nuclear power, thinking the govt is failing and don't trust TEPCO. But nothing is changing to address this.
by lillymunster 7/6/2011 1:57:09 PM

@lillymunster Today it may be 80%, what was it 6 months ago? GOV doesn't respond quickly to public opinion (probably a good thing!), but they respond over time. OK I voiced my opinion, I'll shut up. Hey, By the way, I was banned from Gloresis for bad behavior, that's what led to my self imposed Fuku vacation.
by RBeaner 7/6/2011 2:00:33 PM

@dean , gm, ..... yes Mr. Sakamoto, until you die in ignorant bliss!
by Peter Melzer 7/6/2011 2:00:40 PM

@RBeaner LOL. you rebel you. :-)

Govt is complicated and can be full of grey areas. It does move slowly and yes many times that is a good thing. What I find concerning has been the GoJ efforts to plod ahead with nuclear efforts without stopping to contemplate on what just happened and is still happening.
by lillymunster 7/6/2011 2:03:17 PM

@ all one thing the industry tries to do is look at the identified accidents and try to write emergency guidelines and procedures for recovery.. they DO NOT have those same procedures for CRISIS MANAGEMENT and no matter where you go in the nuclear industry it all behaves about the same,,, try to handle the crisis with limited information,, people untouch with plant reality up the chain. FIX IT NOW DEAL WITH THE PAPERWORK LATER mentality...
by dean 7/6/2011 2:04:23 PM

www.google.com any one of a number of applicable ways of crisis management
by dean 7/6/2011 2:05:33 PM

steel sheets on floor of #3 to shield workers from basement water. ex-skf.blogspot.com
by lillymunster 7/6/2011 2:09:02 PM

Japan has been doing nuclear work for a long time and I'm sure they have procedures in place to bring workers on board (some times hundreds of sub contractors) to perform work at the plant... IN NORMAL TIMES AND WITH ADVANCED PLANNING. We are seeing the extent to which they work under a crisis mode, with adversarial management/regulator/gov't RELATIONSHIPS whose decisions become based on profitable/political outcomes, with emergency planning meetings coming to VIOLENT agreement on plans and procedures. In the wake of this challenge lies the common worker, loyal to the country, wanting to help but in the end being victimized due to CRISIS management overlooking the needs of the people on the front line of defense..

by dean 7/6/2011 2:09:54 PM

I can monday morning quaterback every decision made but it doesn't help, I want to be a contributor some how to educate the laymen, people living in the area and some how feel accomplishment in doing that... RBeaner had a good word back some time.. 'UNPRECEDENTED'.. and boy that still is the case for sure down to the daily assignment of work, radiation risk education, job briefings and de briefings, training workers before they do a task "correctly".. ETC..
by dean 7/6/2011 2:13:10 PM

@lillymunster ....plod ahead with nuclear efforts ... My 14 yr old daughter explained Momentum the other day, It was quite accurate. The GOJ will continue to plod ahead with nuke until the hill ahead rises sufficiently to stop them. It is up to the people to provide the hill. I hear the japonese and many other countries described as Sheeple, and I agree, most only care when it has a VERY direct impact on them. How do you wake these people up?
by RBeaner 7/6/2011 2:13:18 PM

@ lilly.. what's the deal with the webcam option above this window?
by dean 7/6/2011 2:15:36 PM

@RBeaner same way you wake up people in the US. Take away the core things of life, they wake up pretty quick.
by lillymunster 7/6/2011 2:15:38 PM

@dean hmm didn't it used to say video?
by lillymunster 7/6/2011 2:17:01 PM

@dean The nuke industry should now be planning and finding funding for a centre in Japan which will have total independence from the industry and governments . It will offer to pay the fuku workers with pension included and then it will set off from fuku's conception and cover everything but the input will be from workers with tepco documentation made available to them to find where the discrepancies are and use worker input to find out the reality and create a true picture not to slate tepco (though I would like to see them hung that is a matter for the law) but to give a insight and learning experience. Granted initially it would cover 0only bwr's but they are a major issue atm and they can expand later.
Also teams of workers can be created who can travel to plants and shadow workers helping them to appreciate the risks etc and improve practice.
by Elaine Kirk 7/6/2011 2:18:14 PM

@dean 'UNPRECEDENTED'.. That's the word for it. I have never faced anything like what they are dealing with. We had "public relations spills" and "political radiation accidents" , meaning none of them amounted to ANY human concern, from my perspective, but they were issues that needed to be handled and cleaned up properly.
by RBeaner 7/6/2011 2:18:31 PM

Interesting bit from the Newsmax article listing all the mark 1 reactors. "The United States has 104 nuclear reactors, generating about 20 percent of the nation’s electricity. The NRC has applications for 20 new reactors."

The govt. mentioned a few years ago that people changing light bulb type would cut 20% out of the US power needs. So if we all switch to LED and stop wasting so much power we could turn off all the NPP in the US?

by lillymunster 7/6/2011 2:18:37 PM

not sure @lilly.. mine says web cam.. I wonder if you click it that your web cam
goes on
by dean 7/6/2011 2:18:51 PM

@dean I don't know, I would hope not! :-)
by lillymunster 7/6/2011 2:20:39 PM

@ RBeaner, I think we saw examples of crisis management from the very tsunami, the whole emergency preparedness system was broken and in the wake of that, people began desperately searching, moving debris trying to get to safety, looking for loves ones and those unfortunates who didn't survive etc. now after this length of time it's just beginning to show some sense of try to get organized... time is the key and hopefully unrecoverable damage wasn't done by the crisis management... in the nuclear world that can happen... ie: shutting off emergency cooling to a reactor starving for water when one assumes they know the big picture

by dean 7/6/2011 2:22:26 PM

lol @ lilly.. I will click it.. shoot..
by dean 7/6/2011 2:22:41 PM

first click.. showed the following... record from live web cam and stream from live web cam.. hmmmmm
by dean 7/6/2011 2:23:22 PM

@dean at least it doesn't just start broadcasting your web cam... I bet it is for on the scene or in studio reporters to add a quick video piece ala reuters.
by lillymunster 7/6/2011 2:26:33 PM

could be.. I clickedo n record from live web cam and the two options for tepco web cam came up.. but I must not have had the right plug-in
by dean 7/6/2011 2:27:53 PM

@dean there were shades of this after Katrina and in some ways after BP even though that didn't require big evacuations. I will see if I can find the article I read yesterday. It talked about crisis management and how we respond as humans and our systems rather than one example of such.
by lillymunster 7/6/2011 2:28:02 PM

sounds good @lilly
by dean 7/6/2011 2:28:53 PM

@dean I would do a morning broadcast for everyone but I tend to look like this before morning coffee and some cosmetics. :-) weirdomatic.com
by lillymunster via Weirdomatic 7/6/2011 2:29:38 PM

@dean I understand the bad decisions that can be developed during crisis management, but that should dissipate after a couple of weeks (the half-life of a crisis is 12 hours, after 10 half lives it is essentially gone). We are 4 months down the road. I would have a nuclear worker school set up, adequate barracks for them, international/independent observations by anyone interested and have a rotating worker pool by now. You have front line people trying to resolve todays issues, and you have back room people looking ahead days, weeks and months. What's the big deal? They still don't know how to dispose of radioactive scum from water filters? What did they do with radioactive scum from nuclear water filters 6 months ago? Now they just have more.
by RBeaner 7/6/2011 2:30:06 PM