Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2381

have to go to cure some patients :) see u
by Edano 9/21/2011 1:00:41 PM

@Edano meanwhile wine buffets and handshakes all round at the iaea talkathon
by elainekirk 9/21/2011 1:01:18 PM

@Ian That water is still highly radioactive so it has to be mingling with containment leaking water. How this admission came about a reporter for a minor newspaper did the math. He said the amount into the reactors and the amount being found, treated, pumped out etc. was more than was going in and far more than rain accounted for. TEPCO was forced to admit their math didn't make any sense why they were coming up with more water than was going in.
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 1:03:37 PM

@lillymunster ooh this poor reporter will lose his job .... he dared to think and ask ....
by Edano 9/21/2011 1:06:38 PM

@lillymunster, so is this evidence of a corium-burned hole through the basement that allows ground water in?
by Ian 9/21/2011 1:14:05 PM

@Edano A few of them have grown a spine. Someone had a video of a TEPCO press conference where one pulled out a bunch of photos and started demanding answers. I think some of them are seeing what a mess things are and deciding to try to do something. I would be TEPCO's advertising dollars have dried up making them fair game now.
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 1:14:24 PM

@Ian the basements have water encroachment issues even when they operate properly. They have to continuously pump water out due to the water table. We know the containment isn't sealed as it won't hold water completely in any of the reactors. Exactly how it is getting out if it is breaks in containment, corium burned holes or through existing holes isn't sure. With the volume of water they have to pump in and clear back out I would guess none are very watertight. The groundwater throws an big unknown into the mix

by lillymunster 9/21/2011 1:17:43 PM

teppycam back
by elainekirk 9/21/2011 1:18:31 PM

good morning all! I found out from this doc www.tepco.co.jp that temps are measured at valves and nozzles outside the RPV. For example, 203-4A designates a safety valve for exhaust air.
by Peter 9/21/2011 1:27:18 PM

@Peter ooh. That is useful. What would be the best way to document and share all of this? a list with descriptions? A graphic with arrows and descriptions? Does this help us with the reactor graphs as far as describing how the numbers are obtained?
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 1:30:43 PM

Does anyone know how to convert these to Seiverts? Readings are in nGy/h
www.bousai.ne.jp
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 1:32:32 PM

@lillymunster, is that nano-greys? This is a useful radiometric converter : online.unitconverterpro.com
by Ian 9/21/2011 1:36:17 PM

by Peter 9/21/2011 1:37:38 PM

This doc: www.google.com
by Peter 9/21/2011 1:38:40 PM

Yeah, it is nanogrey : www.aqua-calc.com
by Ian 9/21/2011 1:39:26 PM

lilly, For gamma-radiation, 1 Sv corresponds to 1 Gy.
by Peter 9/21/2011 1:40:24 PM

@Peter I don't know what SPEEDI reads but I would guess maybe a mix of alpha,beta,gamma? I was going to post that page as an article but wanted to put it into terms people could related.
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 1:42:32 PM

Health ministry to give workers free scans yearly for life. mdn.mainichi.jp
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 1:44:55 PM

@lillymunster , the measured values commonly pertain to gamma radiation, unless indicated otherwise.

by Peter 9/21/2011 1:45:07 PM

Even for beta-radiation, 1 Sv = 1Gy and 1 nanoSv = 1nanoGy.
by Peter 9/21/2011 1:48:26 PM

Ok, the situation so far, will be vague for now, some heavy falls were recorded at weather stations near the plant, would expect to see fall toatls of over 100mm for the system crossing(I may be wrong?) winds look to have lowered now but gusts still exceeding 100km/h are occuring, the system has undergone significant weakening after land interaction with Japan, sat imagery depicts the weakening systems lowered winds, and the central rain structure has also dissipated greatly. Stations near to the plant have recorded wind gusts close to or exceeding 100km/h although the highest readings seem to be from around an hour or two ago now. I am waiting on a position update from JTWC (should be issued soon) along with another microwave pass....then it will probs have to be bed time for me! TBS cam because it's on a hill is experiencing some howling gusts atm.....to note though that dosen't neccisarily represent wind speeds felt at the plant!
by Thunder edited by lillymunster 9/21/2011 1:48:47 PM

@Thunder thanks, added an update to today's weather post on the site.
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 1:53:28 PM

Look at Tab 3.2F in the Entergy doc I posted. It lists Surveillance Instrumentation.
by Peter 9/21/2011 1:53:32 PM

@Lilly no worries, to anyone who wants a visual on where the storm is as of 1200UTC(current 1352UTC) type this into google and click the map.... 37.0N 140.5E
by Thunder 9/21/2011 1:55:58 PM

Greetings chaps - I'm back from the other side of the world.
by hudebnik 9/21/2011 1:58:54 PM

Some nuclear cleanup news from the UK:

Scottish nuclear leak 'will never be completely cleaned up' The Scottish Environment Protection Agency has abandoned its aim to remove all traces of contamination from the north coast seabed.

Radioactive contamination that leaked for more than two decades from the Dounreay nuclear plant on the north coast of mainland Scotland will never been completely cleaned up, a Scottish government agency has admitted.

The Scottish Environment Protection Agency (Sepa) has decided to give up on its aim of returning the seabed near the plant to a "pristine condition". To do so, it said, could cause "more harm than good".

At a board meeting in Stirling on Tuesday, the Scottish government's environmental watchdog opted to encourage remediation "as far as is practically achievable" but to abandon any hope of removing all the radioactive pollution from the seabed.

Tens of thousands of radioactive fuel fragments escaped from the Dounreay plant between 1963 and 1984, polluting local beaches, the coastline and the seabed. Fishing has been banned within a two-kilometre radius of the plant since 1997.

[article continues]

www.guardian.co.uk
by hudebnik 9/21/2011 2:00:58 PM

@hudebnik fuel fragments? Wow
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 2:05:33 PM

@Lilly - yes, our old friend cs137
by hudebnik 9/21/2011 2:06:59 PM

Hey @All I have two questions, first the tent is built equaly around four sides and only over the lower part of the reactor building? Correct? and secondly did we find out what happended to fukufaq except that some a*hole deleted it?
by Thunder 9/21/2011 2:09:49 PM

@Thunder On the FAQ. I still have not heard back from Wiki. We found an intact cached version. I will need to manually restore each page and lock them down. What do you think about me also making a copy to house on the group website? I don't want to see all that work and historical record just evaporate again.

The one tent is partway done. They are still supposed to put another row on and the roof with a vent system.
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 2:16:01 PM

@Lilly the copy sounds good, sucks that happended though! I actually use that weather links page when I do NW Pacific weather because my favourites is full of weather for my home region so when I went there looking for something I was like argh krap....then I rembered you added it to the website...thanks heaps!:-) I do have a copy on back up drive as well though! It's good the tent has no roof or upper panels atm...as bad as that may sound....the reason is say if it had a roff and three complete walls the wind would blow in the open side and cause internal pressurization and blow the roof off of the wall panels out(like what can happen in a Hurricane to your house after you loose a window), it does depend on how well it's built...but it is TEPCO so I will be placing no bets! I will wait another five for this dang sat pass and wrap things up before bed...
by Thunder 9/21/2011 2:25:31 PM

@Thunder where the tent currently is, without the top layer around the open work deck is probably good. The sections with wall behind stand a better chance of dealing with the wind.
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 2:28:13 PM

@hudebnik that is really sad. If they can't clean up this mess in Scotland what hope is there to clean up the sea around Fukushima,
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 2:35:15 PM

that in hudebniks story is what bugs me about tepco's radiation disappearing in a matter of months !! how can idiotic politicians and reporters keep perpetuating the tepco myth
by elainekirk 9/21/2011 2:42:03 PM

@elainekirk Right. Greenpeace and some other group that were testing sea water said TEPCO was using sample gathering that gave rosy results. These other groups results were much higher. I don't know if anyone has tested the sand and silt.
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 2:50:05 PM

new 5.2 quake near fuku, shortly after teppy-cam crashed...
by Puc 9/21/2011 2:56:03 PM

Ok, sick of waiting on the sat updates, JTWC have called final warning of the system @ 1200UTC as it transitions to an extra tropical low, Navy NRL have probably stopped sat updates due to this. Final JTWC warning notes the transition and frontal characteristics(looks like a comma shape) first part of the front moved over fukushima prefecture around 1830- 2030JST bringing the highest winds and 1 hour rainfall totals(around 50mm depending on location), @2300JST the rain and wind have significantly lowered over the area with light rain to the west, as this passes it may bring some more rain to the area but not like seen on the eastern side, @ 2000JST the Namie station totals were 164/205/267mm for 12/24/48hr respectively, since it has recorded around 15mm to 2300JST. Hopefully the worst of the system has passed, looking at the sat images it certainly seems that way with the heaviest rain in the northeast quadrant and little to no major action anywhere else, may see some sporadic flares of moderate falls but as I said...hopefully all over now... or should I say for now! :-)
by Thunder edited by lillymunster 9/21/2011 3:06:00 PM

@Thunder ty good to know
by elainekirk 9/21/2011 3:08:41 PM

back...
by dean 9/21/2011 3:10:02 PM

@Thunder thanks! That seems like lots of rain in Namie.
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 3:10:02 PM

@lillymunster it should be asked why the seabed isnt being tested ffs 30yrs later we are still testing I just don't get it the inhumanity and cavalier attitude of those in the driving seat makes me wish they would go headfirst into a brick wall
by elainekirk 9/21/2011 3:10:49 PM

@Edano if you are still here & @ lilly, elaine.... the term.. COLD SHUTDOWN as it pertains to RPP's is at this point wrong to use because it's a term used for NORMAL SHUTDOWN conditions with all systems functioning. The should really come up with some other term associated with a post accident condition. typically they use stable state or something like that
by dean 9/21/2011 3:13:42 PM

@dean Some JP university professors were questioning the terminology. I think the IAEA said "stable" to the media but I am hearing "cold shutdown" lots in the media and it makes me cringe.
by lillymunster 9/21/2011 3:18:26 PM

@Elaine but what @Puc said....not good to know! @Lilly yes it is, but those sorts of totals are pretty widspread along the systems path, top totals from the whole of Japan are 570mm for 48 hours and 424mm for 24 hours @ 2000JST, Talas dropped alot more, but certainly alot of rain!!! I have to sleep now anyways, too late! @ All stay well! Oh and @Dean Hi! Good to see you!:-)
by Thunder 9/21/2011 3:19:15 PM