Japan Earthquake | Page 2457

  • and it suggests perhaps that older NPPs are starting to chronically leaks. It's also surpising to me as I assumed Sr90 was a heavier radionuclide, unlike for example Cs137, and thus less prone to release.
    by Ian 10/5/2011 7:28:24 PM

  • @lillymunster I will go check
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 7:33:14 PM

  • this is the one I posted earlier note the title
    Readings of Environmental Radiation Level by emergency monitoring(October 4, 2011) radioactivity.mext.go.jp
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 7:35:37 PM

  • "Tepco contributes to the enhancement of radiation monitoring ??????"
    does that mean they alter the figures to make them look better ??
    www.jaea.go.jp
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 7:38:58 PM

  • @elainekirk ah. Those were taken from a car. Grabbed them to go with that Ex-SKF article. That makes an interesting picture between what the researcher found, the car readings and the readings taken from helicopter.
    by lillymunster 10/5/2011 7:39:37 PM

  • Readings of integrated Dose at Monitoring Post out of 20 Km Zone of Fukushima Dai-ichi NPP (10:00 October 4, 2011) radioactivity.mext.go.jp
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 7:39:45 PM

  • @lillymunster the monitoring post readings are just below
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 7:40:18 PM

  • Help I just tweeted this crap on simplyinfo thinking it was audi's link on different subject can we erase it search.japantimes.co.jp
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 7:44:14 PM

  • @elainekirk grabbed those. Fukushima city seems to be the next highest after the cities already known to be really contaminated like Namie etc.
    by lillymunster 10/5/2011 7:44:27 PM

  • @elainekirk like delete the tweet?
    by lillymunster 10/5/2011 7:45:04 PM

  • @lillymunster yeah I dont know how to do it
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 7:48:31 PM

  • wow, Ian is onto something, there are lots of links there. These articles come to the conclusion that especially for children "norma/safe" levels of radiation are harmful to kids even if the plants are operating properly, and much worse if they blow up at TMI or Chernobyl and now Fukushima, and they're going by Strontium, which isn't even being measured compared to the Iodine and Cesium that they're worrying about decontamination around Fukushima. Now if Busby cited stuff like this he'd be a bit more credible. STANDARD MORTALITY RATIO ELEVATED 6-10 YEARS AFTER STARTUP
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
    Int J Health Serv. 2006;36(1):113-35.
    A short latency between radiation exposure from nuclear plants and
    cancer in young children. Mangano JJ. Abstract Previous reports
    document a short latency of cancer onset in young children exposed to
    low doses of radioactivity. The standard mortality ratio (SMR) for
    cancer in children dying before age ten rose in the period 6-10 years
    after the Three Mile Island and Chernobyl accidents in populations
    most exposed to fallout. SMRs near most nuclear power plants were
    elevated 6-10 years after startup, particularly for leukemia. Cancer
    incidence in children under age ten living near New York and New
    Jersey nuclear plants increased 4-5 years after increases in average
    strontium-90 in baby teeth, and declined 4-5 years after Sr-90
    averages dropped. ...the very young are especially susceptible to adverse effects of
    radiation exposure, even at relatively low doses.
    by artnuke 10/5/2011 7:58:45 PM

  • @elainekirk I wasn't sure either, try this support.twitter.com
    by lillymunster 10/5/2011 7:59:27 PM

  • www.scribd.com Here's that short latency paper, search for the title to find a copy of the doc. It mentions the "khalili" hypothesis that there are studies showing no unsual cancers besides thyroid after the chernobyl disaster, but everything else in the paper points to statistically scary increases in all kinds of bad stuff linked to radiation from both normally operating and melting down nuclear plants.
    by artnuke 10/5/2011 8:04:49 PM

  • @artnuke once again the KiKK study
    by Edano 10/5/2011 8:05:29 PM

  • @lillymunster its ok the hero responded to my desperate pleas and deleted it
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 8:11:13 PM

  • I took a lot of math and this still doesn't make sense "An important finding in the comparison of Sr-90 and childhood cancer trends is that the quadratic (fourth root) value of Sr-90 in baby teeth provides the highest incidence rate ratio, and thus supports the theory that a quadratic of Sr-90 fits the assumption of a link better than does linearity. Thus, the upward supralinear dose-response best describes the relationship between in-body Sr-90 and child- hood cancer risk. This relationship indicates that the greatest per-dose risk occurs at the lowest dose levels, which is critical to understanding the health risks of radioactive environmental emissions routinely released from nuclear facilities. " Does that mean increase in risk with increasing amount? Linear means 2x increase means 2X increase in bad stuff. Log increase means 2X = 4x badness or worse. Dunno what the quadratic stuff is. www.scribd.com
    by artnuke 10/5/2011 8:12:10 PM

  • @elainekirk :-)
    by lillymunster 10/5/2011 8:12:27 PM

  • www.ratical.org @artnuke, the upward supra-linear dose response www.ratical.org

    by Ian via Ratical.org 10/5/2011 10:07:02 PM

  • @Ian supra-linear... thanks that makes everything much clearer (hmm, looks liike not as bad as exponential)
    by artnuke 10/5/2011 10:16:30 PM

  • 2010 PREDICTED MELTDOWN ON POWER LOSS, 2007 TEPCO SAID POWER LOSS IMPOSSIBLE<BR>
    factsanddetails.com
    “TEPCO had said in the past that a situation where all the nuclear
    reactors lost all their power sources would be "unthinkable," no
    matter how bad the disaster. This sentiment was echoed in 2007 by
    Haruki Madarame, now chairman of the government's Nuclear Safety
    Commission. He testified in a lawsuit trying to shut another nuclear
    power plant : "There needs to be a line drawn somewhere. It'd be
    impossible to design [a nuclear plant] if engineers had to consider
    every single possibility." [Source: Yomiuri Shimbun, April 17, 2011]
    <p>
    A report released by the Japan Nuclear Energy Safety Organization
    (JNES) in 2010 predicted that if all power sources were lost due to an
    earthquake, fuel rods will begin melting after only 100 minutes. This
    report said a reactor's containment vessel would be damaged after
    about seven hours and a large amount of radioactive material would be
    released into the air. According to an analysis by the government's
    Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, damage to the core of the
    Fukushima plant's No. 1 reactor started about two hours after the
    tsunami and its pressure vessel was damaged in about four hours--very
    close to what JNES had predicted. [Source: Yomiuri Shimbun June 12,
    2011]
    <p>
    by artnuke 10/5/2011 10:17:30 PM

  • @artnuke, yes it does mean increased risk with increased exposure, though it's not a linear function. Consider also the graphs for life in the Chernobyl exclusion zone www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov they're straight but are in fact non-linear log-log graphs, and they also show harm at every non-zero level of exposure. These graphs fall as number of living creatures declines with increasing radiation, and both axis are logarithmic. Radiation is manifestly is anti-life, or lifeocidal.
    by Ian 10/5/2011 10:17:30 PM

  • @Ian very interresting. there are lots of people who claim that there is thriving life in chernobyl's exclusion zone.
    by Edano 10/5/2011 10:25:47 PM

  • would like know if this concerns floral life as well.
    by Edano 10/5/2011 10:35:59 PM

  • @Edano It must be on google earth maybe :)
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 10:37:56 PM

  • @Edano My reading of the technology review piece is that while animals and plants show some problems with mutations, the lack of people more than makes up for this and it's practically a wildlife refuge in some parts in terms of animal population growth. You just can't (or it's inadvisable) to shoot the animals to eat though.
    by artnuke 10/5/2011 10:38:22 PM

  • @artnuke a wildlife refuge where mutations are feeding through the generations and no natural food chain exists that is free from contamination is maybe not to be lauded ?
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 10:39:51 PM

  • @elainekirk it will be like in all biological islands: very few individuals will survive the radiation and their children will be adapted to it (in some thousand years). most probably the roaches will survive, while more complex organisms will die out.
    by Edano 10/5/2011 10:45:17 PM

  • darwin's law is often completely misunderstood: not the strongest survives, but the BEST ADAPTED. i really hate it when darwin is misinterpreted as "the survival of the strongest". he literally said the "fittest", which does not mean strongest, but best adapted.
    by Edano 10/5/2011 10:48:42 PM

  • therefore, things like "social darwinism" are completete nonsense. poor darwin.
    by Edano 10/5/2011 10:52:12 PM

  • @Edano humans are back footed from the off because how many would survive without the support of the supermarket order ....
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 10:57:14 PM

  • anyone else for coffee
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 10:57:35 PM

  • Tepco's seabed soil contamination results www.tepco.co.jp
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 11:09:29 PM

  • @Ian, have you come across Dr. Louise Reiss and the Greater St. Louis Citizens’ Committee for Nuclear Information yet? Read more here: www.nytimes.com
    by Peter 10/5/2011 11:11:48 PM

  • ...a bit more here: jwa.org . jwa.org

    by Peter via Jwa.org 10/5/2011 11:14:46 PM

  • @Edano, right, there are some who say the exclusion zone is a wildlife haven, when in reality it's a killing machine. Those claims of the true believers are ad-hoc observations -- look at the birds, look at the bees and all the lush trees, oh, the exclusion zone a veritable paradise before our eyes! But when Møller and Mousseau www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov actually went and counted the numbers of various species over differential contamination zones they found a one-one dose response to less life. And think about it, it only makes sense. At a certain distance from a given mass of nuclear fuel you'll die in minutes, further away for it, in hours, further still, in years ... And always as a function of the number of radiative traversals of your body, ie, the number of subatomic bullets fired into your cells. And just like the more bullets fired in a crowed the more people are hit and killed, the more subatomic bullets fired into your body, the more cellular and genetic damage and the harms that can entail.
    by Ian 10/5/2011 11:20:52 PM

  • @Ian of course, the biological-medical approach is glass clear and straight. i always wonder about "experts" who find different, strange models.
    by Edano 10/5/2011 11:24:21 PM

  • @Edano , I believe that is because people don't drop like flies. If they did, like they used to with plague, cholera, typhoid fever etc, there would be no debate. Effects of low level radiation are just creeping different.
    by Peter 10/5/2011 11:31:29 PM

  • @Peter, exactly! Radiation is a stealthy invisible killer.
    by Ian 10/5/2011 11:34:51 PM

  • Parents in Japan may be interested in replicating Dr. Reiss' idea and have their children's first teeth examined for radioactive strontium.
    by Peter 10/5/2011 11:35:00 PM

  • remember how Litwinenko was killed ? very slowly and very ugly with polonium-210. en.wikipedia.org
    .
    by Edano 10/5/2011 11:38:49 PM

  • @Edano, and he died from the sheer volume of subatomic disintegration caused by subatomic radiative bombardment. And if I recall Po210 is an alpha emitter, so really brutal massive subatomic ***ulative damage. I found a case in the literature of a Cs137 suicide; it demolished his heart.
    by Ian 10/5/2011 11:44:59 PM

  • Steve Jobs has died :(
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 11:47:46 PM

  • Statement by Apple’s Board of Directors

    CUPERTINO, Calif. — We are deeply saddened to announce that Steve Jobs passed away today.

    Steve’s brilliance, passion and energy were the source of countless innovations that enrich and improve all of our lives. The world is immeasurably better because of Steve.

    His greatest love was for his wife, Laurene, and his family. Our hearts go out to them and to all who were touched by his extraordinary gifts.
    by elainekirk 10/5/2011 11:49:22 PM

  • @elainekirk RIP
    by Edano 10/5/2011 11:51:57 PM

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