I think TEPCO thought they had something bad and that someone was going to tell the public. They did this right before they had to disclose bad news to NISA and IAEA. There was a mention they had to tell Noda's office. I don't think Edano is going to hide info for TEPCO and maybe they were now in some way compelled to inform the government?
by lillymunster 11/6/2011 1:55:43 AM
@lillymunster sounds a likely explanation
by elainekirk 11/6/2011 2:10:53 AM
@Peter Melzer yes I keep scouring their releases hopefully the pieces will start to fit soon
by elainekirk 11/6/2011 2:28:47 AM
One of the workers has been tweeting trying to stop a rumor someone started that 4300 workers died and TEPCO is paying off their families to be silent.
by lillymunster 11/6/2011 2:29:26 AM
@lillymunster I wondered what he was talking about .
by elainekirk 11/6/2011 2:36:01 AM
and so to bed
by elainekirk 11/6/2011 2:37:31 AM
Nite Elaine!
by lillymunster 11/6/2011 2:42:51 AM
good morning
by elainekirk 11/6/2011 11:01:16 AM
this update says 10pm 6th but we can assume it is 10am
www.tepco.co.jp and there is nothing new in it
by elainekirk 11/6/2011 11:08:48 AM
this is the 3pm update and for unit 2 it says
-At 11:04 am on November 6, we started operation of radioactive material
decontamination instrument of spent fuel pool.and in the general update-
-At around 11:00 am on November 6, since partner companies' workers who
went on patrol found that the boiler of evaporative concentration
apparatus stopped, we stopped operation of the apparatus 3B and 3C. Since
the operation panel on the site alerted "Very low water level in boiler
supply water tank", we assumed that the boiler stopped due to this reason.
After that, we conducted investigation of the cause of decrease of supply
tank water level. When we started a backup pump for transfer of boiler
supply water, the alert stopped. Therefore we judged that one pump was
troubled.
In addition, although all the evaporative concentration apparatus stopped,
water treatment by the water desalinations (RO membrane system) and water
injection to the reactors have been continued.www.tepco.co.jpby elainekirk 11/6/2011 11:13:00 AM
second (or 3rd ?) day without news...
by Edano 11/6/2011 12:03:46 PM
something for dean: this
IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers) report brings some new details:
24 Hours at Fukushima they interviewed nisa and tepco.
a thrilling read !by Edano 11/6/2011 12:24:09 PM
"The isolation condenser, which relied on convection and gravity to perform its cooling function, should have helped keep the water level high in unit 1's core through the crisis. But operators had turned off the system just before the tsunami by closing its valves—and there was no electric power to reopen them and let steam and water flow. Workers struggled to manually open the valves on the IC system, but experts believe the IC provided no help after the tsunami struck."
by Edano 11/6/2011 12:28:25 PM
"The workers in charge of the venting operation took iodine tablets. It was a feeble attempt at protection against the radiation they'd soon encounter, but it was better than nothing. They gathered protective head-to-toe suits and face masks connected to air tanks. At 3:45 a.m., the vent crew tried to measure the radiation dose inside the reactor building, which had been off limits for 6 hours. Armed with handheld dosimeters, they opened the air lock, only to find a malevolent white cloud of some "gaseous substance" billowing toward them. Fearing a radiation steam bath, they slammed the door shut. They didn't get their reading, but they had a good indication that things had already gone seriously wrong inside the reactor."
(....)
"At 9:03 a.m. the message came: The last buses "(with evacuees)" had departed. At 9:04 workers set out for the reactor building to open the valves that would allow gas to flow out of the primary containment vessel. They entered the reactor building and began a long, dark trek around the periphery of the primary containment vessel, guided only by flashlight beams. As they walked, their handheld dosimeters flashed troubling numbers. In normal conditions, a nuclear plant employee's radiation limit is 50 millisieverts per year; in an emergency situation it is 100 mSv. The workers had covered about half the distance to the valve when they realized they had to turn back—if they continued, they would exceed the 100 mSv dose. They returned to the control room at 9:30. They had failed.
Over the next hours the operators scrambled to find another way to open the valves; finally they decided to blast the valve open with air. They used a crane truck to haul a portable air compressor, the kind typically used at construction sites, to the crucial valve's location. At 2:00 p.m. the vent crew switched the compressor on, while workers in the control room nervously watched the gauge."
by Edano 11/6/2011 12:40:25 PM
@Edano wow what a find
by elainekirk 11/6/2011 12:59:09 PM
so they used a compressor to actuate the venting valve.
by Edano 11/6/2011 12:59:49 PM
@Edano desperate move
by elainekirk 11/6/2011 1:00:18 PM
@Pedro Jesus it is hard finding further info on that or it was when I looked about an hr ago
by elainekirk 11/6/2011 1:00:50 PM
greetings to all..
by dean 11/6/2011 1:13:12 PM
@Pedro Jesus ty
by elainekirk 11/6/2011 1:13:24 PM
@dean read this:
spectrum.ieee.org ! :)
by Edano 11/6/2011 1:14:09 PM
@Edano.. reading now.. ty
by dean 11/6/2011 1:14:25 PM
@
by dean 11/6/2011 1:34:35 PM
@Edano, excellent read and nice nice find
by dean 11/6/2011 1:34:55 PM
on the air to open the valves, some valves in plants are operated by air with accumulators which typically hold enough air for an emergency operation in the event that normal pressure is lost. If you look at all the systems in the facility which need either PLANT air or general air.. or.. INSTRUMENT air which is normally seperate and then do a review of what happens to the plant systems if the air slowly drops in pressure... the big valves used in systems usually need 90 psi to operate and those can slowly close if held opened by pressure..
by dean 11/6/2011 1:38:12 PM
@Edano, I used to ask my operators to tell me exactly what happened when the air systems slowly lowered... it always taxed their brains to figure things all out
by dean 11/6/2011 1:39:06 PM
Instrument Air for Measurement and Safety
To produce electricity in the most efficient manner, the flow of steam and condensate, as well as levels in the heat exchangers must be monitored and controlled. Many of the instruments that monitor flow, level, pressures, and temperatures incorporate instrument air quality compressed air (Instrument Air) to transfer information. Flow and level control is accomplished by the throttling operation of air operated valves (AOV’s). The AOV’s require instrument air: clean dry compressed air. Normally, the resulting load on the Instrument Air System is relatively constant. The high quality air prevents the small ports on instruments, controls, and AOV’s from becoming clogged with debris, moisture or oil, which could prevent the proper operation of the equipment supporting the efficient production of electricity.
by dean 11/6/2011 1:40:58 PM
Service air is also needed to start Emergency Generators
by dean 11/6/2011 1:49:56 PM
@dean it is a good find isn't it
by elainekirk 11/6/2011 1:54:33 PM
@elaine indeed it is..
by dean 11/6/2011 1:59:50 PM
we have never discussed the air systems but it would be a good search.. first off for the JAPAN fuku's to see if the safety systems for the BWR's need instrument or service air to operate like starting a diesel generator or positioning a valve or instrumentation needed... then ... look at where are the compressors and storage tanks for the air systems. then look at the position of these in comparison to the plant to determine EQ or TSUNAMI damage. I'll bet the compressors could be in the adjacent buildings with the air tanks outside which could have been damaged by either EQ or tsunami.. and from the looks of inside of the #2 plant the piping lines could easily have been damaged
by dean 11/6/2011 2:03:41 PM
@dean I will try that just cleaning up at the moment
by elainekirk 11/6/2011 2:26:07 PM
sounds good @Elaine..
by dean 11/6/2011 2:30:15 PM
morning! (afternoon-evening)
by lillymunster 11/6/2011 2:36:50 PM
they turned the ic off right before the tsunami, that's why they are nearly full. but why did they turn them off ? prevention against the tsunami ?
by Edano 11/6/2011 2:39:30 PM
I agree, I suppose that government rules force them to announce certain findings. Otherwise they break the law. The announcement sounded like a preemptive disclosure to prepare the public of potentially bad things to come like 'all people still living near the plant need to be evacuated, just as a precaution and for a couple of days' or something like that.by Peter Melzer 11/6/2011 2:15:14 AM
I got a message from someone saying debris were flying off Unit 2 and pointing to www.youtube.com , but by the time I looked I don't see anything. I'm not exactly sure what they meant. Anyone catch unusual activity at U2?by Ian 11/6/2011 6:51:24 AM
@Edano I never post any thing here any more because I don't find any thing to post....by Majj 11/6/2011 12:21:59 PM
I'm not sure if this has been reported here:
hudebnik
alblee
UKVal
Oliver (ScribbleLive)
Jonathan Keebler
Matt (ScribbleLive)
kaykodh
PKelley
Markfm
Angie
Deb
Mid Valley
Pedro Jesus
George Gibb
bo
IanGoddard