@tippytoe. Regarding Midwest fault line, i feel a lot of people are aware of it but no publicity on it. I just recently moved from Memphis TN and local governments in the area have regularly scheduled training on earthquake disasters and also construct earthquake proof buildings as part of their planning. t Ever since the big earthquake in the 1800's when the Mississippi River flowed backwards creating Realfoot Lake in Northern TN.
by MaryW 3/26/2011 6:00:30 PM
@ Dean ... please don't...you are one of our most reliable sources of cold, hard facts. Hope this blog/forum doesn't dissolve into he said/she said...
by MaryMary 3/26/2011 6:00:35 PM
I believe the sea waters starts a corrosion on all components it comes in contact with immediately and extremely bad in the fuel core...
by Dean 3/26/2011 6:01:15 PM
ty mary mary .. I try because people in japan have used us to make decisions for their family...
by Dean 3/26/2011 6:01:46 PM
This has always been my biggest issue with fission. I don't think we humans are even capable of thinking realistically about designs that can outlast this stuff. The pyramids are what, 5,000 years old? And when the planners are thinking in fiscal quarters...
by radioguy 3/26/2011 6:02:37 PM
@MaryW, that's good to know some people are aware of the fault line here. The public needs to make sure that the owners of Nuclear plants in the area know about it and have backup plans for it too.
by tippytoe 3/26/2011 6:02:38 PM
@Dean, I was reading about the use of MOX fuel on the post you linked earlier this morning. Is this procedure a poor-man's alternative to a fast breeder? Whatever happened to that technology anyway?
by Peter Melzer 3/26/2011 6:02:45 PM
@radioguy We have an experiment burry of ultimate waste : it will be at 650/750 meters under the soil . it is study to saty there without leaking for 200 000 years. it have started 10 years ago, and the experimental place is not over : have in mind that no waste will be disposed there, it's just a study ... Hubert Reeves, an astrophysician, have said about it : it's good . but how the men could now the future ? imagine that the egyptian have burried deadly waste under the pyramids. who will be take care of them , survey them now ?, who will remember it ? and pyramids , it's only less than 7000 years
by Future Isnow 3/26/2011 6:02:54 PM
I have a hard time imaging such a huge facility around the ones there to protect it... dang.. a whole bunch of concrete
by Dean 3/26/2011 6:03:03 PM
peter.. I think the mox program was sort of put together to burn up what they didn't want to store to get into another countries hand with bad intentions
by Dean 3/26/2011 6:04:30 PM
@Dean ...and what would that continual salt water spray exposure do to concrete...?
by MaryMary 3/26/2011 6:04:34 PM
The very base fact of all of this, is we cannot, and never will be able, to control nature. The more "control" we have, the less we worry about consequences. Our technology is wondrous, but the long and short of it, is the earth will always hold us at her mercy.
"It's not the end of the world, but I can see if from here"
by Patrick Kelley 3/26/2011 6:04:36 PM
www.ustream.tv Water in turbine room not from spent fuel pool.
by Bobby1 3/26/2011 6:04:51 PM
@radioguy Sounds like the answer to the plant (and Chernobyl??)!!! [Pyramids]
by Dennis Tucker Jr 3/26/2011 6:05:56 PM
how bout a great wall of china kind of structure out into the ocean built so strong a 50 foot tsunami wouldn't crash it.. and then bury the reactor and cement it in
by Dean 3/26/2011 6:06:10 PM
I'm asking myself how Greenpace wants to get so close to the reactor to measure their own data - and if they would get there... there is the question, if they will show us "real" datas or maybe exaggerated ones.
by Mejin 3/26/2011 6:06:17 PM
@Dean: it may be easier to make it sink than entomber it... And maybe safer, who knows ?
by Jo Lindien 3/26/2011 6:06:18 PM
This is totally off topic, so ignore if you like: All this talk of nuclear power reminds me of something my father always used to say....He was born in 1914 and was raised dirt poor, but on a farm where his family was totally self sufficient. No electricity, horse and buggy, well water, home grown food, etc. Till the day he died in 2003 he ALWAYS used to say, "Technology is going to eventually destroy the earth". He even said that having electricity "wasn't the way God intended". lol I always thought he was nuts, and just so old fashioned and resistant to change. I could never understand what on earth he had against "progress.....Well, I finally get it.
by Janis 3/26/2011 6:06:27 PM
@MaryW, If you'll check Ready.gov or FEMA's home site, you'll see Craig Fugate and his team have been promoting Earthquake safety awareness for many months, well before the smaller quakes that occurred there earlier this year. They've been pushing this because we're at the 199th anniversary of the big New Madrid quake. It's not been overlooked, just that few people care to pay attention.
by Nathan B 3/26/2011 6:06:46 PM
Back to the main issue: Basically the last 24 hours tell me nothing new? Some "hot" puddles - more or less salty, maybe some smoke, today probably only white, light in the control rooms, and besides that ...? Oh, I forgot: surely no immediate danger besides that. Any real progress available?
by Max 3/26/2011 6:06:50 PM
@Max Some fresh water injections instead of seawater
by NHK Listener 3/26/2011 6:07:55 PM
@ Future Isnow : the main difference is that we, in France have decided to stock nuclear waste in order to use them in the future as fuel for Nuclear Plant. That what was the Super Phenix in France was all about. The technic is simple : In La Hague Nuclear Waste Building, they recycle the waste by decomposing it in 95 % of poor uranium, 4 % of dangerous waste, and 1 % of plutonium. The main goal is to use that 1% plutonium in order to make the 95% of poorr uranium usable as a fuel. It's some kind of utopist technology, but areva and the french government think this technic will be available and "safe" for the 4th generation of EPR (probably in 2050). We'll see if this technic is trusty or not, but at least, the company and authorities are trying to fix this nuclear waste issue.
by William Leglise 3/26/2011 6:08:40 PM
@Mejin Anything Greenpeace says is speculative.. They have an agenda
by NHK Listener 3/26/2011 6:08:57 PM
maybe we could haul the reactors over to the volcano and dump in there to melt
by Dean 3/26/2011 6:09:02 PM
If molten debris is collecting at the bottom of #1, the steam buildup will prevent cooling from water.
by Bobby1 3/26/2011 6:09:03 PM
@Janis I don't agree, future and knowledge is a good thing, if we don't allow it to rule our life. and if we don't allow others to rule ous life with that technology . Light in houses, for ex , have been a huge progress, and Internet is much more a progress than television . my 2 cents, with respect for you father (mine does have quite the same feeling ;-) )
by Future Isnow 3/26/2011 6:09:45 PM
How water level in core can be the same since few days if they are injecting it... (jaif updates) ???
by John 3/26/2011 6:10:19 PM
www.infowars.com .Dont know if this was posted already, and if the info is true.
by audi 3/26/2011 6:10:22 PM
@audi Conspiracy site for sure
by NHK Listener 3/26/2011 6:10:51 PM
@dean : what do you think about the liquid metal cooling with tin, I mentionned earlier on Wipedia page for Fukushima incident ?
by Future Isnow 3/26/2011 6:10:52 PM
@tippytoe. I believe a lot of Midwesterners are aware of the Mississippi River fault line, but no publicity on the subject. I recently moved from Memphis TN, and local government carrys out regularly scheduled earthquake disaster drills. Ever since the 1800s earthquake when the Mississippi River flowed backwards and formed Reelfoot Lake in northwestern TN, that part of the state has been preparing for the next big one. I suggest all to visit Reelfoot Lake, it is an amazing area. There is a forest that lies beneath the lake, as the result of the earthquake, and you can see treetops above the water.
by MaryW 3/26/2011 6:11:07 PM
@John because they leaks, or are hot enough to convert water in steam, which leaks..
by Future Isnow 3/26/2011 6:11:55 PM
I do not wish to offend, but this post might be controversial to those who are affiliated with the nuclear power industry. My purpose in posting is to invite those more knowledgeable to point out errors in my thinking.
I have long thought that nuclear power is inherently fraught with insurmountable difficulties. The vessels in which reactions occur, and all the related machinery such as conduits, instruments, and electrical service equipment, are subject to high temperatures and high radiation. Over time the radiation causes changes in the atomic species of the material, eventually leading to material fatigue (consider the need for periodic replacement of turbine blades in a BWR reactor where radioactive water/steam passes through the turbine by design). But how are these parts to be replaced, once the entire apparatus and environment has become so highly radioactive that no person can work nearby for long? Common sense suggests that the whole design concept was tragically flawed from the outset: these kinds of serious fundamental design issues cannot be overcome, no matter how much sophisticated computer modelling and engineering expertise may be thrown at it. Human life cannot depend on hypothetical "scheduled innovation" by future generations to figure out how to deal with 100,000 year problems we have created in this generation.
My professional experience was 25+ years in high tech, with significant focus on engineering design relating to high availability and high reliability in the event of multiple faults occuring in a complex system.
Please friends, I invite comments and if you can refute this I sincerely hope you will.
by Sky 3/26/2011 6:12:02 PM
Future. you know at first I thought lets get things stabilized and sum up a long term plan... maybe that tin plan is really something to seriously think about.. good point
by Dean 3/26/2011 6:12:28 PM
@all Pardon my ignorance I'm just trying to think out of the box. Is it possible to use Polymers as an initial stage of entombment.
by Tenzing 3/26/2011 6:13:03 PM
Nice article from NY Times on radiation history www.nytimes.com
by Patrick Kelley 3/26/2011 6:13:23 PM
Back for a bit.. @Janis: I agree with your father and have often thought said the same thing myself.
by Karen Warren 3/26/2011 6:14:05 PM
lol, No problem, Future. I am alll about creature comforts, and am thankful I was born now...would never make it without electricity, or even the internet! Just saying that some day, hopefully very, very, very long after we all are gone, I do believe that there is no way the earth can continue idefinitely on the path we are on. And I wouldn't be a bit surprised if technology ends up polluting or destroying so many of our resources that the earth as we know it will cease to exist. Good post, Sky.
by Janis 3/26/2011 6:14:13 PM
@Tenzing: polymers are not stable in time and hardly handle high temperatures. Would not be confident with such an entombment....
by Jo Lindien 3/26/2011 6:14:14 PM
The ZAMG notes that the total release of radioactivity in Fukushima in the wake of the relatively low effective dose, which is observed in Japan itself not to be underestimated. The bulk of the material has so far been transported to the Pacific and not in the interior. The iodine-131 values were measured in California and Hawaii, and not directly relevant for health. Place but a significant emission in the near order of magnitude reported by us. zamg.ac.at
if this continues, many countries have problems with this crisis.
by hans 3/26/2011 6:14:17 PM
@Sky, I agree 100%. And for anyone who is involved in engineering or risk management. Whenever you are developing anything and talking about backups and backups to backups, stop walk away, don't build it. Whatever you were designing is doomed.
by tippytoe 3/26/2011 6:14:43 PM
This is tepco's latest press release www.tepco.co.jp do they think we are all mindless morons for whom a diet of BS is adequate?
by elainekirk 3/26/2011 6:15:30 PM
Karen, I like you. :) I think a lot of older Americans still feel this way.