Japan Earthquake | Page 56

  • @Dom TMI did not release much radiation at all...the fact that we're talking about any radiation being released in the first place is heart breaking but the difference between level 6 and level 7 is like saying the earthquake was 8.8 or 9...the difference is immense, at least that's my understanding given the information. And to everyone on the board: Any way this is sliced it's a horrible situation, there is no way to sugar coat any of this, I just like to stick to the facts, we are all entitled to our own opinions and thoughts. I don't want to seem as if I am saying "you're wrong you're wrong!!" That's not what I'm shooting for, I'm just shooting for my own way of dealing with this. Sorry if it's coming off any other way, it's not my intention.
    by Andy 3/27/2011 12:13:53 AM

  • @James Ward I do not watch CNN or MSNBC, but I do not trust nuclear industry advocates more than Takashi Hirose. One example of his fear-mongering rhetoric is when he speaks about radiation levels being "3,500,000 times the normal yearly dose", by calculating that a person would absorb the one-time measurement of 400 mSv every hour of every day for a full year. The link you posted is just an excerpt, but he's playing on people's fears quite a lot.
    by kb 3/27/2011 12:14:25 AM

  • @marie rich I can imagine those poor TEPco engineers are burning out trying to solve this.
    by George Gibb 3/27/2011 12:16:49 AM

  • @sims, could mean several things, but somehow fuel particles must have entered the suppression pool. It indicates that the fuel rods have fractured, the reactor unit may have experienced a partly or full meltdown, no one knows yet.
    by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:16:59 AM

  • @sims Fuel has not necessarily leaked, but there seems to be some kind of breach between RPV and SP. Not also that the pressure is the same in both.
    by kb 3/27/2011 12:16:59 AM

  • Something that really struck me as amazing is this video, it's 46 minutes and it's on google video but after watching it I have trouble comparing this to Fukushima...Chernobyl is beyond my comprehension. Anyway, if anyone has 46 minutes and wants to see what it's like inside the Sarcophagus at Chernobyl, I suggest you watch this: video.google.com
    by Andy 3/27/2011 12:17:15 AM

  • An Operations Update on the Relief Effort in Japan from America Pacific Command www.pacom.mil
    by elainekirk 3/27/2011 12:18:18 AM

  • @kb, could also just be venting of the reactor vessel into the suppression pool
    by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:18:26 AM

  • @sims The CNIC Japan people were talking about melted debris at the bottom of the #1 reactor yesterday.
    by Bobby1 3/27/2011 12:19:53 AM

  • Can the reason for "700 engineers" be because no individual can enter the area in question for long enough a period of time to accomplish very much? Perhaps they are switching in and out. I envision logistical difficulties ... imagine you are trying to install house wiring but you have to switch roles with another person every 15 minutes and you have to find a way to communicate the next thing to be done, the location of each tool, the status of things already done, etc. That would be extraordinarily difficult especially in a hazardous worksite. Eh?
    by Sky 3/27/2011 12:20:02 AM

  • it is rare, i can only find this differenciation in the German wikipedia, not in the English:
    by Matsuoko 3/27/2011 12:20:10 AM

  • @WolfDK In that case, it would have to be continuous venting... Hopefully it's a stuck valve or something.
    by kb 3/27/2011 12:20:36 AM

  • Though I am starting to have a jaded view on the media coverage of the Japan situation, I was mildly surprised by the fact that none of the big news services were reporting this. Tried to post it on the ol' Reuters blog but was not allowed.
    by Dom 3/27/2011 12:21:07 AM

  • @Sky Then again, the alternative is exposing workers to high levels of radiation.
    by kb 3/27/2011 12:21:33 AM

  • nothing new ... ;/
    by Poland 3/27/2011 12:21:36 AM

  • @kb, i agree we just don't know, a stuck valve would make sense with the coolant used in mind
    by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:22:16 AM

  • Yes but even if one assumes there are people are willing to voluntarily accept a high radiation dose to get the work done, there is a physical limit beyond which a human body simply cannot function.
    by Sky 3/27/2011 12:22:43 AM

  • FRom an article - "There is a definite, definite crack in the vessel -- it's up and down and it's large," he said. "The problem with cracks is they do not get smaller."
    www.nThe dtv.com
    by Miles edited by George Gibb 3/27/2011 12:22:56 AM

  • it is rare, i can only find this Ines differenciation in the German wikipedia, not in the English: Ines 5 = 100–1.000 TBq, Ines 6 = 1.000–10.000 TBq, Ines 7 = >10.000 TBq equivalent dose of Iodine131 left out. Chernobyl was 70.000 TBq. de.wikipedia.org
    by Matsuoko 3/27/2011 12:23:52 AM

  • In that video I posted these young men were given rubber suits and told to go pick up pieces of the reactor that had been thrown by the explosion at Chernobyl into the area. They could only touch them for maybe 5 or 6 seconds to get them into the reactor core where the Sarcophagus would be erected. EVERY machine they tried to use failed due to radiation. It's amazing, the only machine that can function in high levels of radiation is the human body and it can't last very long.
    by Andy 3/27/2011 12:24:04 AM

  • @Sky Ok, if it's 15 minute interval, than we also are safe to assume, that the radiation is far greater than being reported no ? And, by now, for sure they would know what areas are unsafe = pinpointing where it comes from no ?
    by VeenOui 3/27/2011 12:24:08 AM

  • @Miles, i mentioned that earlier, but a anonymous guy is not a trustworthy source
    by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:24:13 AM

  • @Sky From what I've been hearing from the clean-up of Chernobyl, most workers were OK but died within a month or two.
    by kb 3/27/2011 12:24:40 AM

  • @WolfDK - That's an article from New Delhi and the New York Times that's mysteriously not been reproduced by other news agencies
    by Miles 3/27/2011 12:25:33 AM

  • Regarding the crack in the reactor vessel itself, are the outer walls of the RPV even visible? I though it laid encased within the drywall and could not be accessed that easily.
    by kb 3/27/2011 12:26:07 AM

  • VeenOui, not necessarily. Perhaps the list of workers who can be used has a lot of crossed off names on it because many have already sustained the maximum yearly radiation allowed by Japanese government and are no longer eligible to enter the work site until some time elapses or regulations are further relaxed. I'm just hypothesizing. There could be several alternative explanations and we should not automatically jump to conclusions.
    by Sky 3/27/2011 12:26:13 AM

  • @Miles I believe Asahi Shimbun was the first to publish that comment...and they don't publish anonymous comments unless they believe the source to be VERY credible.
    by James Ward 3/27/2011 12:26:44 AM

  • @kb I have no idea. I have only seen mention of this crack in the one article posted.
    by Miles 3/27/2011 12:27:04 AM

  • there wa sosme talk that the neutron beams that were seen suggested that there had to be a crack and that they had suspected the crack to be out and looking for neutron beams
    by Charlie 3/27/2011 12:27:25 AM

  • What kind of evidence would strongly suggest a crack, without being able to physically inspect the location? Pressure becoming equalized; inability to hold water above a certain level; escape of specific radionuclides that would only come from direct contact with hot fuel; ... I don't know for sure, but these are the kinds of evidence that I suppose the experts are looking at to make these deduction. Maybe somebody actually knows as fact ... or maybe it is just the strongest candidate explanation based on the data.
    by Sky 3/27/2011 12:28:24 AM

  • @James I feel the same way about the NYT.
    by Miles 3/27/2011 12:28:30 AM

  • @Sky Thing is, i haven't jumped to conclusions BUT I am asking why there is no location or specific equipment failure pointed to or even better not crossed off the list.........Al that has been said thus far is ..we don't know
    by VeenOui 3/27/2011 12:28:41 AM

  • The neutron beams were the evidence
    by Charlie 3/27/2011 12:29:01 AM

  • Yes it was me who supposed that maybe the neutron beams might have been emitted from a slit aperture (crack). I do not really know but there is no other good explanation that I have seen.
    by Sky 3/27/2011 12:29:26 AM

  • @all The Japan Times - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - Signs of disaster were there to see. Seismology experts warned for years nuclear plants can't withstand true worst-case scenario. search.japantimes.co.jp
    by Tenzing 3/27/2011 12:29:48 AM

  • @kb, if you receive a medium to high radiation dose (1-8 Sv) you will experience a latent period (walking dead) of 7-31 days depending on the exposure level, after the latent period you will die.
    by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:30:11 AM

  • The scientists all said that they couldnt have neutron beams without a certain set of circumstances. the circumstances pointed to a crack and the beams have to be picked up with specialist equipment so they were looking for the evidence
    by Charlie 3/27/2011 12:30:23 AM

  • @Sky : i stated earlier that the Co60 they found in the "puddle" is a very likely proof for a crack in the vessel.
    by Matsuoko 3/27/2011 12:30:32 AM

  • Source to my prev. post: en.wikipedia.org
    by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:30:51 AM

  • I'm pleased to read the report of how the U.S. military is helping the relief effort. For example, "•Commander Task Force 76 (CTF 76) continued harbor clearance operations in Hachinohe yesterday. USNS Safeguard (ARS 50) with the embarked divers of Mobile Diving and Salvage Unit 1, Explosive Ordnance Disposal Mobile Unit 5 and Underwater Construction Team 2, worked together with Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF) and commercial divers to open the harbor for operations. They took underwater surveillance imagery with side scan sonar equipment to detect, mark and move underwater obstacles from the channel and the vicinity of the liquid natural gas (LNG) pier. The local port captain certified the channel and pier for safe navigation. Today an LNG tanker entered the port, marking the first delivery since the earthquake and tsunami on March 11. After Hachinohe harbor is clear, Navy teams will continue similar efforts in the ports of Miyako, Kamaishi, Ofunato, and Sendai, debris and other navigational hazards so that ships may resume deliveries of critical supplies. " in the www.pacom.mil ink someone just recently posted here.
    by Sky 3/27/2011 12:32:23 AM

  • @Matsuoko The puddle was found in the turbine building, which receives steam directly from the reactor. Water could have come that way.
    by kb 3/27/2011 12:33:03 AM

  • @Sky, this is only a qualified guess, but the neutron beam could be originating from some spent fuel elements undergoing fission.
    by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:33:18 AM

  • Eeek, I saw Andy grabbed my fb post off the blog and put it on here...I'm glad it was able to create some discussion! That's good.
    by Grizzly 3/27/2011 12:33:43 AM

  • From the same report. This puts chills up my back. I am so glad someone is benefitting from help, during this awful time. "•A P-3 “Orion” from VP-4 and assigned to CTF-72 conducted a reconnaissance flight to survey ports and roads in Mukai, Toni, Kuji, and Ofunato. The crew spotted the words “HELP WATER” formed in the snow of a baseball field located beside an elementary school. They quickly relayed the information to the Japan Self Defense Force, and ensured that the site was being serviced by the JGSDF. "
    by Sky 3/27/2011 12:33:59 AM

  • This should help to put some light on the situation IF approved
    Fukushima-Related FOIA Request: Full Data Sought on Radiation Levels That Led To Call for 50-Mile Evacuation Radius for Americans in Japan
    networkedbTheylogs.com
    by VeenOui edited by George Gibb 3/27/2011 12:34:11 AM

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