Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 57

@kb, In that case one of the primary coolant system pipes must be ruptured inside the turbine hall.
by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:35:06 AM

This is a video I haven't seen on the news much...it's another video of the tsunami washing through a town: www.youtube.com
by Grizzly 3/27/2011 12:37:01 AM

To me the 'neutron beam' sounds to me like it might be a translation error. Even in the official Tepco releases where they publish gamma dose rates, they have a column for 'neutron ray', which presumably means any detection of free neutrons, not specifically some kind of directed ray or beam.
by sims 3/27/2011 12:37:56 AM

@WolfDK Sounds likely to me. Many articles state that the turbines are located in the "basement" of the reactor hall, is this really true? Does anyone know how separated the turbine buildings are from the reactors?
by kb 3/27/2011 12:38:16 AM

Interesting, using the Google RT search for #fukushima has brought tweets all along but it is pretty much at a standstill now ?
by VeenOui 3/27/2011 12:38:25 AM

@sims I agree. I haven't heard any mention of neutron beams in Japanese media.
by kb 3/27/2011 12:38:45 AM

@kb : Co59 is stable. it is used in steel Cobald-Chrome-Molybdane Co-Cr-Mo steel is stainless steel. Co60 (radioactive) can only derive from Co59 by catching free Neutrons. Co60 is not in the decay line from other radioactive products. if you find Co60 in the turbine "puddle", it can only come from the steel vessel. there is no other place with free neutrons. Hence this is a kind of proof that the vessel is broken. otherwise you would never find any cobalt in the water.
by Matsuoko 3/27/2011 12:39:03 AM

Neutron beam observed 13 times at crippled Fukushima nuke plant
TOKYO, March 23, Kyodo

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday it has observed a neutron beam, a kind of radioactive ray, 13 times on the premises of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant after it was crippled by the massive March 11 quake-tsunami disaster.

TEPCO, the operator of the nuclear plant, said the neutron beam measured about 1.5 kilometers southwest of the plant's No. 1 and 2 reactors over three days from March 13 and is equivalent to 0.01 to 0.02 microsieverts per hour and that this is not a dangerous level.

The utility firm said it will measure uranium and plutonium, which could emit a neutron beam, as well.

In the 1999 criticality accident at a nuclear fuel processing plant run by JCO Co. in Tokaimura, Ibaraki Prefecture, uranium broke apart continually in nuclear fission, causing a massive amount of neutron beams.

In the latest case at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, such a criticality accident has yet to happen.

But the measured neutron beam may be evidence that uranium and plutonium leaked from the plant's nuclear reactors and spent nuclear fuels have discharged a small amount of neutron beams through nuclear fission.

==Kyodo
by byg 3/27/2011 12:41:19 AM

@kb, they are entirely separate buildings, the rectangular buildings with big pipes coming out of them on the helicopter fly overs are the turbine halls. The turbines are on the ground level, and beneath them (basement) are the steam separators and pumps, this is where the workers got irradiated.
by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:42:28 AM

The utility firm said it will measure uranium and plutonium...
by Poland 3/27/2011 12:44:38 AM

@Matsuoko Doesn't mean the vessel itself has to be broken. The turbines in the turbine hall are where the steam from the reactor vessel is meant to go in normal operation, so material from the RPV could get there without the vessel structurally being broken, if valves etc. are open. In fact, if the vessel is broken, the water coming out would go into the basement of the reactor building, not into another building that's separated by some distance. What it does mean is that some of the plumbing in the turbing hall is leaking, which doesn't bode well for any chance of starting the coolant loop.
by sims 3/27/2011 12:44:46 AM

@sims, exactly
by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:45:56 AM

I didn;t see these pictures before from inside the Plant.
izismile.com
by VeenOui 3/27/2011 12:46:14 AM

Sky News about to mention Fukushima, after the ad break (don't miss this rare opportunity! Even if it is the same old stuff as yesterday)....
by Paul (UK) 3/27/2011 12:47:14 AM

@
by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:47:42 AM

@VeenOui, thanks! That last pic really shows the damage to reactor building #3
by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:50:22 AM

have been folowing for days, great site.. 30 years in high pressure industrial piping/hazmat trianing... point of intrest in the lack of info... was just reading article about "traped employees when quake hit" ....1) 200 employees (sub-contrctor I belive) in reactor #3- but safety defult is to auto lock inside.. apperently no rescue rooms as with mine shafts.. 2) TEPCO took long time to relase employees due to trying to scan for contamination.. gave up after scaning only 20 or so due to panic... 3)IMPORTANT - employees complained of smoke or steam... having trouble breathing... apperently crane hook had fell.. 4) OK.. time of crisis all safey goes out the door ... but they operated for a hour on generators accourding to press reports... did anyone investigate cause of "smoke/steam???? during this period??? also sounds as though they had no emergency lighting that kicked in when power went off line... Main Question here other than an apperant "relaxed saftey enviroment" HAS TEPCO HAD THESE 200 (IF CORRECT) EMPLOYEES REVIEWED AND SCANED BY MEDICAL PERSONEL??? DID THEY INFACT HAVE ANY "RAD CONTAMINATIONAN" ??? WAS AN ACCIDENT REVIEW DONE TO GATHER PERTAIN INFORMATION SO AS TO "TRY AND FIGURE OUT" WHAT THE SITUTATION WAS AT THE TIME ---THIS (ACCORDING TO ARTICLE) WAS BEFORE THE WAVE HIT (accident/medical review could have been done next day- as all employee fleed to save self and familys.... if infact they have done any of this "where is the info" steam would be indicator that they may have had piping/valve/pump failure right after quake????? sorry so long
by fitter 3/27/2011 12:52:08 AM

@sims : Co60 can only exist where free neutrons are present. the only place with free neutrons is the reactor vessel. the vessel, if not damaged, does not "wash out" its Cobalt60. if so, the vessel would not survive many years. free Co60 must come from a breaching vessel. it does not say where the breach is, and it does not say if it is a complete breach, but it says in any case the vessel is damaged.
by Matsuoko 3/27/2011 12:52:14 AM

@Matsuoko, I heard about radioactive Cobalt and Molybdenum in the basement water on Here and Now yesterday. Does anyone have a source for this?
by Peter Melzer 3/27/2011 12:52:15 AM

Looks like the damage goes almost all the way to the bottom of the spent fuel pond..
by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:52:22 AM

@fitter can you link the article please
by George Gibb 3/27/2011 12:53:35 AM

@Peter Melzer : Molybdaneum is another thing. it is part of the uranium decay line. so this can be found in an intact vessel, too. but not Co60.
by Matsuoko 3/27/2011 12:53:39 AM

@WolfDK I find those pictures and the one you are looking at to be of great concern
by VeenOui 3/27/2011 12:54:50 AM

@fitter, I think tat from a set up like tepco there would be very little chance of any medical checks for those trapped in the building. If they send ppl in without suitable footwear and then suggest they have sunburn it doesn't auger for well in my eyes.
by Charlie 3/27/2011 12:55:40 AM

@George Gibb Here's the link: www.reuter
s.com
by James Ward edited by George Gibb 3/27/2011 12:55:53 AM

@James Ward ty
by George Gibb 3/27/2011 12:57:33 AM

@fitter, "did anyone investigate cause of "smoke/steam????" Afaik normal operation doing a reactor scram is to open a valve dumping some pressure, could have been what the workers experienced. My guess is that most people would be scared in such a situation, and some valve opening letting out high pressure steam would not help.
by WolfDK 3/27/2011 12:57:47 AM

@Charlie Some nuclear "expert" on CNN suggested that there wasn't anything radioactive in that puddle...they were just "thermal burns". I wanted to throw the TV out the window!
by James Ward 3/27/2011 12:58:07 AM

@James Ward : and the workers didn't notice the boiling water in their shoese ? sounds like tepco logic.
by Matsuoko 3/27/2011 12:59:27 AM

@WolfDK I would think any release of steam would take place outside the plant, not inside spaces occupied by workers and engineers.
by James Ward 3/27/2011 1:00:20 AM

It's all so familiar to what we got 25 years ago after chernobyl. The lies, the deceit, the outrageous explanations and condescending attitudes towards the general public.
by Charlie 3/27/2011 1:01:21 AM

Comment about basements at sea level. It seems to me that to have an structure erected below sea level such as is reported to be the case with these plants, requires specialized building designs and risks for these type of structures. Is it true that they are constructed below sea level?
by Sinthia Domina 3/27/2011 1:01:24 AM

@Charlie you mean last summer with BP
by George Gibb 3/27/2011 1:02:22 AM

@James Ward, cant remember what the valve is called, will do some digging. The valve is just a small relief valve, not a steam vent valve those goes to the big venting masts outside.
by WolfDK 3/27/2011 1:03:06 AM

As the old saying goes.... You can fool all of the people some of the time!!!!! Some all the time but never all of them all the time!!
by Charlie 3/27/2011 1:03:27 AM

@Charlie They updated that saying to You can fool most of the people and screw the rest lol
by George Gibb 3/27/2011 1:05:03 AM

In light of the chemical and radiologic analysis published by Tepco of the contaminated water those poor fellows were standing in (1.5m deep "puddle"!), the "expert" on CNN should be ashamed of himself. His statement is easily refuted by Tepco's own admission.
by Sky 3/27/2011 1:05:08 AM

Returning to the American relief work www.pacom.mil yesterday(thurs/fri) there were pics of them working to try to re-open Sendai? airport there is no mention of that today , work appears to be concentrated on opening sea supply lines. Without sounding like a conspiracy therorist could this mean they expect the airspace to be restricted?
by elainekirk 3/27/2011 1:06:36 AM

I believe I read a couple of days ago that Sendai airport was already being used to fly in relief supplies. Hope my recollection is accurate.
by Sky 3/27/2011 1:07:23 AM

@Sky. We can be fairly sure TEPCO won't admit the full extent of anything.
by es 3/27/2011 1:08:06 AM

@Sinthia Domina : i don't think so. the fuel chamber is quit high in the reactor building. the only thing in the basement is the suppression torus, but i would not think that it is below zero.
by Matsuoko 3/27/2011 1:08:09 AM