Japan Earthquake | Page 728

  • @Nancy I've got that overhead shot showing the reactor well lip too, its hard to figure out because these overheads are not directly overhead so everything is a bit messed up. I look forward to seeing your work later, I'll go back to work now! ;-)
    by madrat 4/16/2011 1:59:06 PM

  • @madrat what I noticed is that the "either side" balance in the CNIC image for #4 still pans out. But it doesn't for 3. 3 doesn't seem to have storage on either side of the reactor. So the CNIC image is still a maybe leaning towards being it, if that makes sense based on seeing the reactor cap in some images.
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 1:59:39 PM

  • @madrat Perspective is really hard to get past. It is really throwing people for a loop. Some of these angles are odd and there is also camera distortion in some were you get a bit of a fish eye curve.
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 2:00:34 PM

  • @madrat. Going to post the new page in a bit. Still need to go back and update some existing pages so old pages might not match the new page until I get comments on the old ones updated.
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 2:01:20 PM

  • @Nancy I'm still suspicious of that CNIC picture and was going to do an analysis of it later on. If I could get the 3D model accurate it can be skewed and twisted to match any camera angle at which point it would help make sense of what we are seeing. That however is based on the model being accurate which at this point is isnt due to lack of drawings.
    by madrat 4/16/2011 2:02:33 PM

  • @UKVal I don't know about that ongoing taking of iodine. I thought it was for protection during a big exposure rather than against low level long term. It does have some side effects.
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 2:02:38 PM

  • @madrat Don't put a ton of stock in that elevation blueprint. It is of #1 and we are finding #1 is different than the other reactors. It is also missing 2 views and that lack of info is causing some odd interpretation due to lack of critical info. I am starting to think 3 and 4 have some subtle differences in layout but not major ones.
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 2:04:20 PM

  • BTW, I talked to someone at CNIC. They have more images but they are totally overwhelmed right now due to only a few employees and a major disaster they are trying to keep tabs on. If things calm down at some point I can probably get more images out of them. If we end up with an unexplainable stalemate on layouts I may email them but I don't know if they will have time to fact check for me right now.
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 2:05:54 PM

  • @Nancy That's why I've been holding off, it takes the same amount of time to do an incorrect model as a correct one! Let's see what crops up over the next few days. Let me know if you see any further drawings etc..
    by madrat 4/16/2011 2:07:10 PM

  • @madrat, we need to find out the source of that new overhead blueprint or at least what reactor and what power plant it is for. It could be useful or it could be totally useless. I can't tell without that info.
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 2:07:58 PM

  • @madrat I have noticed as TEPCO clamped down on releasing data full images of reactor buildings or overhead shots are almost non existent. They are heavily censoring what they release. I have to wonder if various groups doing photo forensics has caused them to stop releasing photos because we are figuring things out they don't want the public to know.
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 2:09:48 PM

  • Breaker breaker, From @Fiona...

    If any of you is about please would you join the Discussion on the Fukishima Dai-ichi Nuclear Power Plant Accident - there is a video posted on there that i cannot believe is real - its a video of the spent fuel pools and reactor taken on the 14th of april - i cannot copy it or link as it is not a you tube thingy - i think a can add you to the group - thanks

    martynwilliams.posterous.com

    .
    by alblee 4/16/2011 2:11:35 PM

  • @Nancy I agree completely, there was more released in the first week than in the last month! I guess this is the difference between 1986 and now, they'll just be releasing what they have to by law and nothing else. There were good images on the digitalspy website just after the accident but I don't think anything new?
    by madrat 4/16/2011 2:13:48 PM

  • @alblee Interesting video. The images from that video were the pulls that I think I posted links to on Kyodo last night. I think there must be more to it, though, as there were some clear shots of the SFP itself.
    by pj 4/16/2011 2:13:54 PM

  • Oh...wait, the stills are below the video - those are the ones Kyodo had that I posted links to last night (can't recall on which board).
    by pj 4/16/2011 2:15:03 PM

  • @madrat I know they are withholding images. Large blocks of image stills are missing from Tepco press releases. They number order the stills and about 10 or so missing from the stills of a video flyover. Chronology would have been the ones where there drone was over 3 and some of the other needed info. They also only released crappy drone stills. None of the better quality arial from previous drone flights. Then they throw out these distraction good quality images like the water tanks added onsite.

    [What makes our blogspace a fine useful one is that whistleblowers can relay withheld images or info through us. - Alblee]
    by Nancy edited by alblee 4/16/2011 2:17:35 PM

  • Government considering plan to dismantle TEPCO www.asahi.com
    by Bobby1 4/16/2011 2:18:44 PM

  • @Bobby1 "A secret plan to dismantle Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO), the operator of the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, is circulating within the government."

    Secret? Huh? "Wow, we wouldn't want anyone to suspect we're actually thinking about dismantling Fuku 1. That might indicate foresight."
    by radioguy 4/16/2011 2:22:29 PM

  • @Bobby1 @UKVal re: iodine, everything I've read says don't take more than a few days, as the effect could be extremely harmful. Better to take a good multivitamin with iodine in it at lower dietary levels. The one my wife & I take has 300ug/day. shop.usana.com Of course, the supplement in that link is only 32.5mg, instead of the 120mg that the emergency iodine pills provide, so they may be finding a middle ground of a more sustainable dose. Still seems high, though, for any long period.
    by jay 4/16/2011 2:24:36 PM

  • @me sorry, "that link" being this one: www.sfgate.com that @Bobby1 posted, not the one I put up.
    by jay 4/16/2011 2:27:57 PM

  • @radioguy I hope it means an independent team of experts will be brought in to control the Fukushima plant. The clowns at Tepco not only are incompetent at managing the crisis, they caused it in the first place.
    by Bobby1 4/16/2011 2:28:50 PM

  • @jay There are multivitamins, as well as kelp and other natural seaweed products which are high in iodine.
    by Bobby1 4/16/2011 2:30:30 PM

  • @Bobby1 They've shown themselves fairly prolific with CYA PR.
    by radioguy 4/16/2011 2:30:34 PM

  • @radioguy They keep revising data numbers down by 100 times or more. If they were simply making mistakes, and were wrong too high 10 times, then you would statistically expect that they were wrong too low 10 other times.
    by Bobby1 4/16/2011 2:33:36 PM

  • @Bobby1 Of course, between this, BP et al, we're apparently trying to make sure you can't actually EAT anything that comes from the sea. Luckily the sea is vast. Unluckily for us, we say that being mostly clueless toward the true meaning of vast.
    by radioguy 4/16/2011 2:33:58 PM

  • April 15 images online. Tweaked images from Cryptome and also a bunch of new images from various sources. www.houseoffoust.com I have forthcoming update on reactor layouts and insides probably later today.
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 2:35:04 PM

  • @Bobby1 Yep. The constant minimization and reduction of threat are beyond irritating. They're removing people's ability to protect themselves
    by radioguy edited by alblee 4/16/2011 2:35:11 PM

  • @radioguy A Monsanto food monopoly?
    by Bobby1 4/16/2011 2:36:36 PM

  • I find it interesting how things slowly evolve out to the public in these vague roundabout statements weeks after most of us have already figured the situation out. It reminds me of the Friday 5pm data dumps the Bush admin was doing hoping nobody noticed info.
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 2:40:45 PM

  • @Nancy they do Friday news dumps here too. & you know that a government officail here suggested 9/11 was a 'good day to bury bad news'
    by UKVal 4/16/2011 2:42:38 PM

  • @UKVal : not only news, i would add.
    by Edano 4/16/2011 2:45:36 PM

  • I just thought of something. On reactor 3, if part of the explosion happened below the reactor floor in some of those areas between the concrete containment and the outer walls, could it have blown floor panels up and out? If parts of the floor were removable or cast in place loose (not tied into the main floor) they could have been blasted out.
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 2:47:27 PM

  • Just in case anyone is interested in a thread about burning hydraulic fluid, burned fuel rods and that kind of talk, please feel free to browse the other unmodded room -- timestamp is roughly the equivalent of 0200 gmt or so, Saturday April 16, 2011. Thanks.
    by ALBLEE edited by alblee 4/16/2011 2:48:04 PM

  • www.houseoffoust.com

    madrat if u are still aroun look at this page, has some landmarks in the images

    [Fine job you've been doing, @Nancy. - Alblee]
    by Nancy edited by alblee 4/16/2011 2:50:18 PM

  • Detailed Fukushima Prefecture radiation map, measured March 25-31, includes 13 Mb pdf www.sss.fukushima-u.ac.jp
    by Bobby1 4/16/2011 2:55:10 PM

  • Look at the cool designs for HRT-10 and HTR-PM at this site. Look at the failure modes! "In 2004, the small HTR-10 reactor was subject to an extreme test of its safety when the helium circulator was deliberately shut off without the reactor being shut down. The temperature increased steadily, but the physics of the fuel meant that the reaction progressively diminished and eventually died away over three hours." www.world-nuclear.org
    by Ralph Unger 4/16/2011 3:02:02 PM

  • 3 hours! , not 3 years,
    by Ralph Unger 4/16/2011 3:02:51 PM

  • @Nancy Pic look great THANK you for the north notaion.... when ever you see ledberter, (cant spell his name) get his opion on the "ladder" i ve been looking at those all week and they are typ of a "frame" we would make to mount elecrtial/pipng boxes etc.. to ..... if you look just to the side of the thread... you see two "mount holes" not a large diamt.. so would not be a Pump or something heavey.... he has field experience and should have a good opion.... also as you are doing this can you identify the markings on the pipe... it seens to be a black lettering, in the general area that they have what looks to be color code stripes... the pic with the doors blow out.. i thing there is a larger drawing showing the pipe to the right side with the system markings on it .... i was unable to enlarge and still have clearity.... also on the other side we had a discussion and i left a post for dean, MSDA on hydr fluid... disagree with some conclusions... i was looking at "fire vs explosion" not sure they understood because they only had todays conv not yesterdays... will get back have a Great day... GOOD JOB....
    by fitter 4/16/2011 3:04:00 PM

  • I'll be getting off in a couple of minutes. Keep up the fine Saturday tech and news chatter, folks. Thanks a lot.
    by ALBLEE 4/16/2011 3:11:15 PM

  • @Nancy. You asked if anyone recognized the equipment in the photo labeled "Inside"? Those are banks of 'Buckets' which make up motor control centers, MCCs. They are most often located on the ground, or basement floor of any process building and are therefore most vulnerable to flooding. An explination of how they work can be found on Wickipedia. Needless to say they and water don't mix. Those 'buckets' will never control a motor again. If the pumps and motors those MCCs control are not damaged they can be run by bypassing this room. However, I don't see it being very safe with the level of radiation that must be present in the turbine room where the pumps are located.
    by DonnerT 4/16/2011 3:21:23 PM

  • Geiger Counters Unlikely to Detect Radiation in Food, Water www.bloomberg.com
    by Bobby1 4/16/2011 3:30:30 PM

  • @DonnerT So are they likely in the reactor building or can they be somewhere else on site. Not sure what you mean by process building. So they are a type of pump control?
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 3:42:26 PM

  • @fitter I can try to pull the pipe and other markings on that "blown doors" image. So if I have this correct the item in the #3 sfp I thought was a ladder might be an equipment hanging rack for installing electrical or piping?
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 3:44:36 PM

  • @Nancy that would be my first guess, its mechanical/stru.. /or electr related.. great job....
    by fitter 4/16/2011 3:51:38 PM

  • @fitter thanks. Will see what I can pull out of that other photo. Any idea what that big poster is about. Looked like some sort of signal language?
    by Nancy 4/16/2011 3:53:47 PM

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