Japan Earthquake | Page 1127
@Markfm Oh, I wasn't suggesting they USED N2, just that I don't even think it would be possible to get that kind of temp gradient for a vessel like we're talking about, even with itby pj 5/12/2011 1:31:33 PM
The UK Telegraph has an article calling it a nuclear meltdown, outright: www.telegraph.co.ukby bo 5/12/2011 1:34:53 PM
Nice. The reactor data for 3 skips the entire time frame of the earthquake and big steam release. www.tepco.co.jp
I wish there was someone we could appeal to, to get TEPCO to release honest data. I know they had readings over that time period. www.tepco.co.jpby Nancy 5/12/2011 1:36:06 PM
#1 plant just continues saying one WL sensor under calibration, the other at -1700mm, other parameters stable. #2 showing parameters stable or slightly decreasing. #3 stating RPV temps dropping, to 189C/149C, from 219C/153C 36 hours earlier, with a 7 - 10 degree drop in the DW temps too.by Markfm 5/12/2011 1:36:13 PM
[OT and Cynical Remarks Ahead] Japan seems to be having power issues everywhere -- Locally (Fukushima Daiichi), National (country's power grid defect), and even in Space [ALOS]. Yes, the ALOS spacecraft, also known as Daichi (one 'i'), has been officially shut down due to inability to restore power from its solar panels.
www.spacetoday.net
www.jaxa.jp
en.wikipedia.orgby Askwhy 5/12/2011 1:36:48 PM- Given the massive amounts of steam or smoke visible previously, I wonder if there'll be anything in the text reports.by Markfm 5/12/2011 1:36:50 PM
Here is an illustration of the RPV ; control rods penetrations are at the bottom, so if leaking it could lose all H2O cid-0b14c7ab35e39ebd.photos.live.comby Majjham Zazen 5/12/2011 1:37:16 PM- ...that was supposed to read 'deficit' not 'defect' but I suppose in this case they are almost interchangeable...by Askwhy 5/12/2011 1:38:29 PM
- I would call this statement a bald faced lie. This is the PR person from the parent company of Areva, who made the MOX for unit 3. "
Nathalie Bonnefoy, a representative from Melox’s communications department, said “The type of fuel used in the reactor is absolutely not involved in the problems at the Fukushima facility…In normal operations, MOX and enriched uranium have the same performance.” What about the use of MOX in the event of a disaster, such as reactor 3 in Fukushima? “At this stage there is no link.”" owni.euby Nancy 5/12/2011 1:39:10 PM 
Going through cleaning up links I came upon Arthur Hu's links again (I hadn't remembered them after his April 23 TEPCO picture article on Asian Week ( www.asianweek.com ) His "Nuclear Energy: Anydex-The Index of Anything" is a helter-skelter hodgepodge, but loaded with links: www.arthurhu.comby radioguy 5/12/2011 1:39:45 PM- ABC radio in Australia with a story calling it a meltdown: www.abc.net.auby bo 5/12/2011 1:44:34 PM
- Bo posted this last night, worth reposting. A very good read from a liquidator at Chernobyl. www.aolnews.comby Nancy 5/12/2011 1:45:48 PM
- @Nancy my take away line from that story was her saying that the people there would define their lives as before fukushima and after fukushimaby bo 5/12/2011 1:46:43 PM
- Looks like NISA didn't bother with the 12 May English translation of their Seismic information report.by Markfm 5/12/2011 1:47:42 PM
- Here you can see (in Japanese) the full Press Conference from NISA on the "water level affair" www.ustream.tvby Majjham Zazen 5/12/2011 1:48:06 PM
@bo, @elaine, the reason I was asking is that the end-stage waste of spent fuel reprocessing contains radionuclides with hundreds of thousands of years half-life which are toxic and must never ever be released into the environment, a problematic legacy to say the least. The original idea in the West German industry was to melt those into glass and store the glass in containers miles deep in an absolutely dry and tectonically stable closed salt mine (Gorleben). The equivalent would be Yucca Mountain in the US. The reprocessed fuel was to be used in fast breeder reactors. The West Germans built an industrial scale fast breeder at Kalkar. After the several billion dollar project was completed, the local governor did not possess the nerve to turn the key. He feared for his career and turned his decision into a political victory, going on to become President. Problem is reprocessing has remained accident-prone and polluting. Germans do not believe in the safety of the end-storage facility. At present, Gorleben is used only for intermediate storage. How does Japan address this issue?by Peter Melzer 5/12/2011 1:50:50 PM- Does anyone know if TEPCO ever released any plant data for May 8th in the early morning hours? That was the other quake and smoke event.by Nancy 5/12/2011 1:52:13 PM
@Nancy "There is evidence to suggest that fission product releases from mixed oxide fuel will
not be the same as release of radionuclides from low-enrichment uranium dioxide fuel more commonly used in nuclear power plants in the USA... There may be changes in the nature of high temperature core degradation when MOX interacts with cladding during reactor accidents that progress to the point of substantial meltdown" prod.sandia.gov p. 14by Bobby1 5/12/2011 1:52:43 PM- NISA Report 136 had a dearth of information -- nothing on determining that 1 has water retention issues, nothing on the large clouds of smoke or steam.by Markfm 5/12/2011 1:53:08 PM
- @Bobby1 oh there is plenty of evidence that MOX likely contributed to the volatility at #3. The lower melting point is one that can't be explained away by other factors. I just found the dishonesty of that PR person disturbing.by Nancy 5/12/2011 1:54:23 PM
- daniel_garcia_r Daniel Garcia
In this video from my understanding, NISA introduces 2 nuances that differ from previous media reports (cont) www.ustream.tvby Majjham Zazen 5/12/2011 1:54:56 PM - @Nancy Yep, bald-faced lie was correct.by Bobby1 5/12/2011 1:55:01 PM
- daniel_garcia_r Daniel Garcia
2) Even if water bellow core, maybe no full melting (part of it could be cooled by steam generated from melted bits)
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Daniel Garcia
daniel_garcia_r Daniel Garcia
1) NISA still doesn't give for granted that "corrected" gauge is actually giving the right data; (remember gauge B still says 1/2 core full)
2 minutes agoby Majjham Zazen 5/12/2011 1:56:55 PM - @Markfm So the standard line, "nothing to see here, move along..."?by pj 5/12/2011 1:57:24 PM
- Absolutely. Wonder what was happening on the ground there. On the 11th their report on plant parameters was for midnight (start of day), and on the 12th their report was for noon -- 36 hour gap during which we saw the large clouds of smoke/steam, the determination that 1 wasn't holding water, etc., yet the "report of record" makes it seem like nothing was going on,very quiet.by Markfm edited by Markfm 5/12/2011 2:00:30 PM
- @bo That ABC transcript you posted a link for was really interesting!by pj 5/12/2011 2:01:45 PM
- @Markfm If you can't prove you saw something, nothing happened - right? Riiiiight. Has anyone sent screen captures to media at all? Just curious if that would generate some renewed interestby pj 5/12/2011 2:02:36 PM
- The JAIF Earthquake report, in my pinup, really is a decent capture of reports in the news. Today's bullets, with stories following them, are:
●Water likely leaking from No.1 reactor
●New radioactive leak raises questions
●Water leaking from No.1 reactor
●TEPCO: Highly radioactive water flowed into seaby Markfm edited by Markfm 5/12/2011 2:03:02 PM - @pj I agreeby bo 5/12/2011 2:03:11 PM
- @Markfm As if the "Highly radioactive water..." part should be past tense. Try water FLOWING into sea.by pj 5/12/2011 2:04:38 PM
- @bo This is up your alley. Found it in that Arthur Hu set: falluja-worse-than-hiroshima
arabwomanblues.blogspot.comby radioguy 5/12/2011 2:04:59 PM - @bo It seems we aren't the only ones with questions. I wish some of these could get asked, or more importantly answered!by pj 5/12/2011 2:05:20 PM
- Water leak article, "On Thursday morning, it was found that the water level was more than one meter below the bottom of the fuel rods," Note -- that's below the bottom, not the top.by Markfm 5/12/2011 2:06:00 PM
- Chlorine 38 false positives. This manifests itself as a spectrum Even without critical re-fuel rods in the decay heat damage if insufficient cooling. @ prevert909: it is possible that the increased fuel mass and the core is almost melted, 38 chlorine can assure you that he or false positives. translate.google.comby Majjham Zazen 5/12/2011 2:06:19 PM
- @Markfm Uh, at that point do you still *have* fuel rods, or do you have a dog-poo type pile of really radioactive "stuff"?by pj 5/12/2011 2:07:01 PM
- NYT and BBC still not reportingby bo 5/12/2011 2:07:15 PM
- @radioguy, perfect! Thanks so much for the link! I can use thisby bo 5/12/2011 2:08:17 PM
- ~sigh~ Time for me to go get some work done. Keep digging, scribblers! If it weren't for you, I'm not sure I'd know anything was miss at Fuku. Sad but true.by pj 5/12/2011 2:08:40 PM
- Later @pjby bo 5/12/2011 2:09:15 PM
- It's the little mound on the bottom of the reactor, the oft-spoke-of lump of corium. Reasonably fresh rods generate a lot of heat, melt, I believe.by Markfm 5/12/2011 2:09:19 PM
- New radioactive leak raises questions www3.nhk.or.jp "Radioactive cesium 620,000 times higher than the government-set safety limit was detected from the leaked water..|The contaminated water was streaming from the outlet of a pipe for electric cables.|The leak is thought to have stemmed from pooled water in the turbine building of the No. 3 reactor.|TEPCO says it found that waste water levels in the facility had risen to a point where leakage was feared on Sunday.
The company says it doesn't know when the leak began, but that it will investigate if the monitoring of water levels was appropriate. The problem raises the question of whether the utility wasn't able to prevent the latest leak."by Markfm edited by Markfm 5/12/2011 2:10:06 PM - I love the last line. I really don't think there is a question of whether they were able to prevent the leak -- they weren't able to, it is leaking.by Markfm 5/12/2011 2:12:20 PM
- Nuclear meltdown at Fukushima plant
One of the reactors at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi power plant did suffer a nuclear meltdown, Japanese officials admitted for the first time today, describing a pool of molten fuel at the bottom of the reactor's containment vessel.
www.telegraph.co.ukby Majjham Zazen 5/12/2011 2:12:44 PM - The Japan Times headline is also straight-forward: Reactor 1 fuel rods melted, sank to bottom search.japantimes.co.jp Its version of "stating the obvious" is "There might be some holes or cracks in the vessel or components connected to it, "by Markfm edited by Markfm 5/12/2011 2:14:07 PM
@Majiham - I like the way the Telegraph writes it - "Engineers from the Tokyo Electric Power company (Tepco) entered the No.1 reactor at the end of last week for the first time and saw the top five feet or so of the core's 13ft-long fuel rods had been exposed to the air and melted down." Like they took the top of the RPV off and peered inside...by hudebnik 5/12/2011 2:15:37 PM
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