Japan Earthquake | Page 1567

  • good morning to every one..
    by Dean 6/10/2011 1:07:37 PM

  • @dean good morning how did @quaker know you were coming rofl
    by elainekirk 6/10/2011 1:08:20 PM

  • lol I saw that too elaine.. @quaker good morning.... I have some treats for the coffee..
    by Dean 6/10/2011 1:08:57 PM

  • @elainekirk The sludge is going to become as big a problem as the excess water at the plant. The volume will keep increasing, where do you put it all?
    by Bobby1 6/10/2011 1:10:35 PM

  • @ elainekirk, had to travel back in time to warn @Dean not to get on that bus today
    by quaker 6/10/2011 1:10:54 PM

  • @quaker, we've heard various maximum numbers for the intensity of the EQ. From an article I read it said.. on average, the high aftershock would be ~1.2 below that level... so the range could be 7.8 to 8.2... both devastating to the already fragile facilities
    by Dean 6/10/2011 1:11:48 PM

  • @Dean, Bath's Law 1.1 to 1.2 of original quake
    by quaker 6/10/2011 1:12:34 PM

  • no buses for me @ quaker but I will bicycle train for a race tomorrow
    by Dean 6/10/2011 1:12:35 PM

  • @Dean, I didn't say HOW you would get on the bus :-)
    by quaker 6/10/2011 1:13:15 PM

  • right @ quaker, I am not an EQ expert by any means, I've slept through all that have been in my area.. sigh
    by Dean 6/10/2011 1:13:52 PM

  • @Dean, my wager is that the quake is stronger than the 9.0 reported.
    by quaker 6/10/2011 1:15:23 PM

  • Radiation in No. 3 reactor too high for work www3.nhk.or.jp
    by Bobby1 6/10/2011 1:17:25 PM

  • That does not surprise me at all Bobby.. good find
    by Dean 6/10/2011 1:18:38 PM

  • Large quantities of contaminated water in the basement near the No. 3 -meter black soot translate.google.com
    by Bobby1 6/10/2011 1:19:20 PM

  • @Bobby1 Not sure how they think they are going to keep anything in the containment on #3 since it hit atmosphere pressure in March. "The utility plans to inject nitrogen gas into the containment vessel to prevent accumulated hydrogen from causing an explosion. It also intends to install a system to cool the reactor with circulating water."
    by lillymunster 6/10/2011 1:20:18 PM

  • @lillymunster I always thought that #3 was the worst of them in terms of containment breach.
    by Bobby1 6/10/2011 1:22:40 PM

  • @Bobby1 From what we know it is. TEPCO admitted it has containment breach. Also odd that they are still worried about hydrogen build up there. I think it was Gundersen that mentioned something about not being out of danger of explosions?
    by lillymunster 6/10/2011 1:25:31 PM

  • @lillymunster They must be expecting radiolysis from large amounts of exposed fuel and large amounts of water.
    by Bobby1 6/10/2011 1:28:15 PM

  • @lilly.. the article said the radiation level was 100milli SV/hr outside the containment vessel, if we know the thickness of the containment vessel and then look up the shielding factors we could estimate it inside the containment vessel.
    by Dean 6/10/2011 1:28:56 PM

  • @dean how did you get into mod ? maybe the wrong bus?
    by elainekirk 6/10/2011 1:29:22 PM

  • Good morning! Now here is an intersting bit of news:" Gregory Jaczko "strategically" withheld information from his colleagues in an effort to stop work on the controversial Yucca Mountain waste repository, according to a report by the agency's internal watchdog." Unfortunately need to pay for the read: online.wsj.com
    by Peter Melzer 6/10/2011 1:30:01 PM

  • elaine.. I don't know,, it was weird I opened a link and when I came back in I got zapped
    by Dean 6/10/2011 1:30:58 PM

  • good morning Peter
    by Dean 6/10/2011 1:31:48 PM

  • @Peter Melzer Jaczko used to be Sen. Harry Reid's aide, it looks like he is still doing his bidding. Along with withholding US radiation data too.
    by Bobby1 6/10/2011 1:32:21 PM

  • @Dean concrete containment is 4ft thick IIRC with rebar. I don't know for sure the thickness of the metal lining but it should be standard GE specs?
    by lillymunster 6/10/2011 1:33:17 PM

  • @Peter Melzer Freebie Chairman Accused of Withholding Information in Nuclear Repository Decision www.nytimes.com
    by RBeaner 6/10/2011 1:34:02 PM

  • @Peter Melzer Diane in NJ posted a link earlier this morning that had the whole story from another source. It sounds really fishy the way the NRC head is doing business.
    by lillymunster 6/10/2011 1:34:22 PM

  • yes @ lilly , concrete halving thickness is 2.4inches so 48 inches would be 20 1/2 thicknesses. Steel is about 1 inch per 1/2 thickness
    by Dean 6/10/2011 1:37:28 PM

  • @lillymunster , I found it thanks. It is important to see that the discussion on what to do with the burned fuel rods gets going. The sad thing is it always seems to take a major disaster to capture people's attention. As to that power plant in Omaha you inquired about last night, the only info I found was that the containment design includes an SFP at the bottom.
    by Peter Melzer 6/10/2011 1:40:16 PM

  • @Peter.. the typical political game playing, YUCCA mountian slated as a promise,, "promise" with some legality attacheded, to provide storage for spent fuel to the commercial reactors, years pass, tons of money spent, reluctance mounts within nevada, deadlines missed forces commercial reactors to dream up other storage methods which is outside of original plant design and costs rate payers money. Then with a change in administration the decision is reached to just CLOSE YUCCA. If anything NRC should be suing DOE for not providing a space. then to appease every one.. the 'BLUE RIBBON COMMISSION' is formed to look at fuel cycles and recommend a solution. I believe after fukushima, the public will intensify it's pressure on the government to re-open YUCCA and get things going there
    by Dean 6/10/2011 1:44:40 PM

  • @Peter Melzer Elaine and Dean found some text info on Calhoun also. The SFP is ground level in a concrete building outside of the containment structure. The thought process behind some of the 1960's technology is just mind blowing. The Missouri river floods all the time and has a track record of major flooding. That is why they put 3 major dams on it upriver. Nebraska doesn't even NEED Ft. Calhoun, it is excess generation capacity.
    by lillymunster 6/10/2011 1:58:20 PM

  • Morning all! Just having my coffee and noticed something about corium and slab breakthrough....Is there some news this morning?
    by LM 6/10/2011 1:58:49 PM

  • @LM My post or a news article you found?
    by lillymunster 6/10/2011 1:59:16 PM

  • @lillymunster Your post...
    by LM 6/10/2011 1:59:55 PM

  • LM.. it was only us discussing the corium interaction with the concrete..
    by Dean 6/10/2011 2:00:32 PM

  • @Dean Whew...Thanks. My coffee wasn't sitting well!
    by LM 6/10/2011 2:02:26 PM

  • @rbeaner you are right today tepco published the report on further evealuation of the dose the 2 workers recieved and it isn't pleasant reading , I am not suprised twitter was alive and if I read again about no harm to health when they know it takes time ...
    www.tepco.co.jp
    by elainekirk 6/10/2011 2:02:26 PM

  • I'm going to begin writing to representatives to WDC and urge opening YUCCA for interim storage of the worst affected reactor facilities who have overloaded their SFP's with fuel ...
    by Dean 6/10/2011 2:02:37 PM

  • @Dean We had another noticeable EQ this morning just before I got my coffee so I was already a little rattled!
    by LM 6/10/2011 2:04:53 PM

  • most of the corium penetration through concrete senarios I have read try to find ways to explain that it wouldn't go through the very thick flooring concrete, but, ,at the end they do acknowledge that it "could" happen and talk about the corium dispersing into the sub ground and finally solidifying.
    by Dean 6/10/2011 2:05:04 PM

  • I found another interesting piece. In case something goes wrong in this country, the industry will blame it on the NRC: pbadupws.nrc.gov . I just cite the paragraph on hardened vents: "In the 1980s, the NRC staff began reviewing the potential for accidents more severe than those
    the plants were licensed for and designed to mitigate. According to the NRC, while BWR Mark I
    containments had provisions for venting, it "typically consist[ed] of a ductwork system which has a low design pressure of only a few pounds per square inch" and "[v]enting under high pressure
    severe accident conditions would fail the ductwork" and "release the containment atmosphere into the reactor building."25 In order to enhance the ability of Mark I containments to prevent and mitigate the consequences of accidents beyond the design basis accidents, the NRC requested in Generic Letter 89-16 that all BWR Mark I plants install a "hardened vent," also known as a DTVS, and stated that for those Mark I plants that did not do so voluntarily, it would conduct a backfit analysis to determine whether to impose it as a requirement. 26 In response to Generic Letter 89-16 and the subsequent results of their Individual Plant Examinations ("IPEs"), all of the Mark I nuclear power plants demonstrated compliance to the NRC's satisfaction.27 However, because installation of DTVS was not ordered for all Mark I plants but was subject to a site-specific backfit analysis, each decision to install such a system was based on plant-specific analyses, subject to the NRC's review. Therefore, the NRC has already reviewed the issue of installation and operation of DTVS on a plant-specific basis, and Petitioner's assertions that such a review is now necessary ignores the historical record of the actions alreadytaken by the NRC." Do you realize that some reactors may not be equipped with hardened vents at all because the design-specificity renders the retrofit unnecessary or impossible?
    by Peter Melzer 6/10/2011 2:05:23 PM

  • www.tepco.co.jp
    The workers now have beds

    by elainekirk via Tepco.co.jp 6/10/2011 2:06:07 PM

  • @Dean I'm assuming that if there are cracks in the slab from the earthquake and aftershocks that the process would be accelerated?
    by LM 6/10/2011 2:08:26 PM

  • Peter,, amazing article and remember over the years there have been many many other issues that have come up such as SEVERE ACCIDENTS, BEYOND DESIGN BASIS ACCIDENTS, SEISMIC ANALYSES AND INSPECTIONS, TMI AFTERMATH, CHERNOBYL AFTERMATH etc. that all had to have detailed review and, the whole issue of LIFE TIME EXTENSION reviews, radiation affects on reactor pressure vessels and core internal components.. it's such a massive thing to cover
    by Dean 6/10/2011 2:10:34 PM

  • @Dean Ft. Calhoun has opened dry cask storage on site. Apparently they are jammed full of spent fuel with nowhere else to put it. I would guess all the 60's era NPPs have storage issues. It just seems so stupid to be storing all that fuel in essentially unprotected facilities within close proximity to major population areas. I have a couple of non-tech type friends on FB that have become interested in this issue after I pointed out the risks with these old NPPs in our area. Two on the Mississippi and two on the Missouri.
    by lillymunster 6/10/2011 2:12:20 PM

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