Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1716

@lillymunster River management is an art, as they keep telling us, but there are decisions made based on financial impact: drowning SD rather than New Orleans again, for instance. If that was the basis for the decision, SD deserves compensation for it, as they took the hit to save a far greater set of damages downriver.
by radioguy 6/21/2011 8:38:55 PM

@radioguy Since much of this involves river management decisions rather than a freak hurricane they might end up with a novel case. Not sure if the Steve Rounds in the article is the former Governor's brother but might be. That could add a new twist to things.
by lillymunster 6/21/2011 8:42:55 PM

Ok, I am back to lurking and soon also sleeping mode, I will look tommorrow if I could find some concrete radiation data for times of fuel rod exchange. Good night, morning, afternoon to all.
by andrea 6/21/2011 8:43:10 PM

@andrea Thanks for the input.
by radioguy 6/21/2011 8:43:31 PM

@andrea Thanks! I'm interested to know what you find. :-)
by lillymunster 6/21/2011 8:44:12 PM

@lillymunster I was just thinking what an interesting case it would be. Of course, this whole river management strategy goes downhill (so to speak) if it doesn't stop raining.
by radioguy 6/21/2011 8:44:53 PM

Hey Guy's, just ran across
USGS 06834000 Frenchman Creek at Palisade, Nebr.

PROVISIONAL DATA SUBJECT TO REVISION
Does this help you @Nancy ?
waterdata.usgs.gov
by Veenie 6/21/2011 8:47:54 PM

@lillymunster : basically, based on the recently released data by a german npp operator, german radialogists found a connection of high rad spikes (still beneath legal limits, of course), fuel exchanges and children's leukemia. the connection could not be found earlier because the nuclear companies are not obliged to release this kind of data.
by Edano 6/21/2011 8:48:21 PM

So, extrapolating, if whenever they open the reactor, there's a spike in leukemia in children, what can 4 constantly open reactors be expected to do. (R4 SFP has to be considered an open core.)
by radioguy 6/21/2011 8:53:08 PM

And R1 SFP, R2 SFP, R3 SFP.
by estacion 6/21/2011 8:55:31 PM

@estacion @radioguy a very concerning fact.
by Edano 6/21/2011 8:56:58 PM

NOT a comforting thought. I hope their shower-curtain containment idea works to cut the airborne down at least, but I'm afraid the WHOI et. al. sea sampling is going to show that to be the least of our worries.
by radioguy 6/21/2011 8:58:19 PM

@radioguy and think about your neighbourhood reactor ...
by Edano 6/21/2011 9:00:31 PM

@Edano No wonder the industry is working so hard to hide it. If, no, when the implications gain traction, Japan's not the only place that's going to be 80% for removing them all.
by radioguy 6/21/2011 9:06:07 PM

@Veenie Thanks I hadn't found USGS having data before but makes sense. Will see if I can find all the points we should be looking at near the NPPs.

Going to run to the store before the next wave of rain gets here. Back in a bit.
by lillymunster 6/21/2011 9:06:48 PM

Oh, right. They're not. They suddenly have lots of company. I guess the implications are gaining traction.
by radioguy 6/21/2011 9:07:04 PM

Hi all! Back again..noticed comments about cancer rates etc., and it got me thinking about some issues we've had here in San Diego near San Onofre NP. I found this gem from 2006 that somehow slipped by unnoticed...It's a real double face palm!..................................Groundwater Reveals Radiation Leak at San Onofre. articles.latimes.com
by LM 6/21/2011 9:12:35 PM

@edano, well lots is possible in Franz Josef Land. Yet, any release in the building is supposed to be filtered before it enters the stack. Thera are radiation monitors in the stack that should set off an alarm. They operator is supposed to keep records of the amounts of radionuclides released and, if they are above limits, report them. This story needs further exploration.
by Peter Melzer 6/21/2011 9:17:54 PM

City in Saitama Prefecture sets independent maximum radiation dose for children
KAWAGUCHI, Saitama -- The city government here has set the maximum radiation dose for children at 1.64 millisieverts per year, making it the first local government in Japan to implement its own radiation exposure standard.

The tentative figure announced on June 20 is based on the International Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP)'s 1 millisievert recommended maximum exposure to man-made radiation sources, plus Japan's average background radiation dose of 0.34 millisieverts and the average 0.3 millisieverts of annual exposure to cosmic radiation.

According to the Kawaguchi city government, the new annual exposure limit breaks down to a maximum hourly dose of 0.31 microsieverts, assuming a child spent eight hours a day outside. Officials will take radiation measurements at 10 sites in the city once a week, starting in mid-July. If they find radiation levels at a site have exceeded the new municipal maximum, the city will restrict outdoor activities at surrounding nursery schools, kindergartens, primary and junior high schools to three hours a day.

The Kawaguchi city government has already taken radiation measurements twice at the 10 sites, recording a top hourly dose of 0.16 microsieverts.

The new maximum dosage was set after the city received inquires from worried parents and guardians, asking what they should do about their children should radiation exposure rise.

Asked if the city's move wouldn't spark confusion in other local governments, Kawaguchi Mayor Koshiro Okamura replied, "We shouldn't all have different regulations. The central government really needs to set a national radiation dose standard."
mdn.mainichi.jp
by estacion 6/21/2011 9:17:57 PM

There have been some cases within the last year of potential cancer clusters among children in the Carlsbad area...It's a head scratcher. The state is denying there is any significance. All this makes me wonder.
by LM 6/21/2011 9:20:36 PM

@Peter Melzer : the releases are not above legal limits, peter, that's the point of the story !
by Edano 6/21/2011 9:20:50 PM

@Peter Melzer www.daserste.de
by Edano 6/21/2011 9:22:40 PM

@LM Thanks for that link. Yikes.
"San Onofre has extracted more than 10,000 gallons of the contaminated groundwater and piped it into the Pacific about 8,600 feet offshore, where it is instantly diluted in seawater, Golden said.

Since groundwater will continue to seep into the contaminated area, plant officials will continue removing contaminated water and discharging it into the ocean until they can remove all traces of the contamination."
by es 6/21/2011 9:23:28 PM

@es Your welcome..that's what got my attention! My family and I swim at a beach not so far from there, not to mention the double whammy with Fukushima. I've had it! They make every effort to squash news like this.
by LM 6/21/2011 9:27:29 PM

@es What they forgot to mention is that it washes back onshore...that's the direction of the current. Morons!!
by LM 6/21/2011 9:29:27 PM

@LM Yes, some of the idiocy we're witnessing really is alarming.
by es 6/21/2011 9:33:42 PM

@es So true..I guess the out of sight, out of mind doctrine applies most of the time. Truly scary.
by LM 6/21/2011 9:40:44 PM

@es @LM That's Tepco-think, just dump it into the ocean and it magically goes away. I wonder how many radioactivity releases there are that we never hear about.
by Bobby1 6/21/2011 9:44:39 PM

@Bobby1 My question exactly! I'm becoming more cynical by the day. Unfortunately I think there are probably far too many releases to count.
by LM 6/21/2011 9:47:22 PM

@LM Think of all the times you have suddenly gotten sick, and ascribed it to allergies, or the flu, or food poisoning. How would you know that it wasn't due to radiation?
by Bobby1 6/21/2011 9:49:03 PM

Scientific American explains the flaws in the infant death paper that has been widely circulated. The data claims fall apart when you look at the months before the data set they used. Similar spikes were seen before Fukushima and the over all trend for 2011 including the weeks after Fukushima is down. They crunched the CDC numbers and go into much more detail than the Mangano paper does. The last paragraph I think is a good overview of the whole situation.
"This is not to say that the radiation from Fukushima is not dangerous (it is), nor that we shouldn’t closely monitor its potential to spread (we should). But picking only the data that suits your analysis isn’t science—it’s politics. Beware those who would confuse the latter with the former."
www.scientificamerican.com
by lillymunster 6/21/2011 9:49:35 PM

@Bobby1 Definitely a valid point. Further investigation is warranted.
by LM 6/21/2011 9:51:21 PM

@Bobby1 : we should be careful. radiation does not induce flu or allergies. just cancer. all types of cancer. and dna damages. acute symptoms only occur on very high rad levels.
by Edano 6/21/2011 9:57:28 PM

Ohhh, look what i found here.....not sure if this was already posted
Radioactive tritium leaks found at 48 US nuke sites
www.msnbc.msn.com
by Veenie 6/21/2011 10:01:01 PM

@Edano It causes cataracts and heart disease also. There is also nausea, metal taste in mouth, vomiting, rashes, bleeding, bruising, sinus problems, cough, nosebleeds.
by Bobby1 6/21/2011 10:01:11 PM

@Bobby1 : only above 500 mSv.
by Edano 6/21/2011 10:01:58 PM

@edano As a physician do you know if radiation exposure can cause an immune response of any kind even in sub lethal doses? Just curious.
by LM 6/21/2011 10:02:19 PM

@edanoit must affect the immune system it is a foriegn body so to speak surely? and as such would provoke an immune response yes?
by Elaine Kirk 6/21/2011 10:02:41 PM

@lillymunster Neither study of infant deaths compared deaths in 2011 to previous years at the same week, there is definitely a seasonal effect that should be controlled.
by Bobby1 6/21/2011 10:02:52 PM

@Veenie Thanks! Disturbing....
by LM 6/21/2011 10:04:09 PM

@Edano What about the reports from Japan of children getting nosebleeds? Allergies?
by Bobby1 6/21/2011 10:04:26 PM

Corps finally releases data for dams. Inflow at all dams up considerably the last 24 hrs. Outflows up at Ohae and same at others. Gavins point output same at 150k. .Oahe up at 160k from 158k. All are about the same as far as being close to the top of the reservoir
us.vocuspr.com
by lillymunster 6/21/2011 10:04:48 PM

From a document of CSN (Nuclear Safety Center, Spain) about an incident in ASCÓ NPP. Google translation from Spanish, bolded mine:

EMISSION CONTROL
Ventilation systems in the controlled area of ASCÓ, including the
building fuel, discharged to the outside through a chimney
located in the auxiliary building attached to the reactor building.
Discharges of gaseous effluents from the stack are monitored so
continuous monitoring system through a noble gas, particles and
radioiodine. Additionally, there is a filter system for
Continuous sampling of particulates and radioiodine, are removed
weekly and analyzed in the laboratory. This system, which allows
collect a representative sample of the discharge has a flow
aspiration of 2 m3 / h. The discharge from the chimney has a flow of 130,000
m3 / h. The small amount of radioactivity incorporated into the particles
large air flow would result in a concentration of radioactivity
no detectable by the continuously monitors.
The small number of particles and the physical-chemical properties of
themselves, with the ratio of flow between sampling and unloading
also explain, in this case, its not detected by the samplers.The environmental monitoring program that develops the holder
environment of the plant (ERSP) and the separate program that takes
undertaken by the Council with the collaboration of the Generalitat de Catalunya
(PVRAIN) perform the measurement of radioactivity in air, with stations
measurement and continuous sampling, water, soil and plant foods
and animal. The CSN has additionally a network of stations for
environmental monitoring (Revira), also shared with the
Generalitat de Catalunya. In no case, except for small oscillations
one of the air monitoring stations in the twisty, in December
2007, which was assessed as not significant, has been detected
increase from typical values found in the programs
surveillance.
by estacion 6/21/2011 10:05:29 PM

@edano I wonder if specific ingestion of hot particles would induce an immune response..it makes sense.
by LM 6/21/2011 10:05:52 PM

With diseases like chronic fatigue syndrome you wonder how much our environment is truly effecting our health. To many unexplained illnesses are popping up...more research needs to be done on environmental contributions.
by LM 6/21/2011 10:08:57 PM