Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1723

did one tank actually float away from its base do I recall?
by Elaine Kirk 6/22/2011 3:17:44 PM

@Elaine Kirk From the images it looked like it did. It was at the end of one of the roads and looked too close and positioned for it to have just been located at the end of the road.
by lillymunster 6/22/2011 3:23:20 PM

There is an effect called 'elephant's footing' that results when tanks are shaken by quakes because of the sloshing the effect is uniform and I just wondered if that was a better explanation for those tanks than tsunami?
by Elaine Kirk 6/22/2011 3:42:47 PM

back
by dean 6/22/2011 4:39:57 PM

@Elaine, I think for some tanks that could be the case.
by lillymunster 6/22/2011 4:40:12 PM

Water treatment system not working as expected

TOKYO, June 22, Kyodo

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday that part of a newly installed radioactive water treatment system at its crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is operating only at one tenth of its expected decontamination capacity.

The utility said that although the system as a whole is performing above the minimum targeted decontamination level, it is investigating the cause of the insufficiency of a cesium-absorbing device developed by Kurion Inc. of the United States.

During recent trial operations, the installation of the device reduced the level of cesium-134 and cesium-137 in toxic water to one hundredth, although a reduction to one thousandth of the level had been anticipated. english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano 6/22/2011 4:40:23 PM

@Dean, Elaine found a topography map. I was able to compare it to the TEPCO reports and their reference points for above sea level and water heights. The area in front of turbine buildings and the level around the reactors was inundated. The back areas past that stayed dry except for some road sections that were dug down into the hillside. I updated the water storage article to reflect what we found. wp.me
by lillymunster 6/22/2011 4:42:30 PM

Researchers simulate Fukushima radiation spread

A group of Japanese researchers have created a computer simulation of how radioactive substances from the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant spread across the globe.

Researchers at the University of Tokyo and Kyushu University on Wednesday released images of the simulation using a forecast system for air pollution and yellow sand.

The simulation was based on the scenario in which contaminated air was vented from the crippled No.2 reactor building on March 14th, 3 days after the massive earthquake and tsunami.

The simulation shows some of the radioactive material was carried 5,000 meters into the air by ascending currents of a low-pressure system that passed near Japan the next day.

Computer images show the substances were then carried by westerly winds and spread over the Pacific Ocean.

The images indicate that on the 4th day after being vented the substances reached the west coast of the United States, and on the 7th day they approached Iceland after crossing the Atlantic.

Wednesday, June 22, 2011 22:01 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 6/22/2011 4:42:48 PM

@Elaine Kirk @lillymunster : are you planning a nuclear waste storage pool ? i don't think it is that easy. you need permissions to do such a thing, and this will need years. and i doubt it is allowed to store it temporarily in balloons.
by Edano 6/22/2011 4:46:40 PM

@Edano It isn't allowed to store it in drainage pits or the sea either. :-)
by lillymunster 6/22/2011 4:48:40 PM

@edano omg no! @lilly just wanted the plant topography and though I found it I went off at a tangent as per usual :) I am now keeping quiet and thinking
by Elaine Kirk 6/22/2011 4:49:02 PM

@lillymunster : yes, but building a new facility is a different thing. i guess you even have to ask iaea.
by Edano 6/22/2011 4:49:48 PM

@lilly.. the write up is perfect. depending on the exact elevation at the sites there could be berming up to provide further protection if the elevations were marginal
by dean 6/22/2011 4:50:12 PM

@Elaine Kirk : no, go on, i just wanted to mention that it might not be possible.
by Edano 6/22/2011 4:50:28 PM

"You try living in Fukushima," governor tells TEPCO president in verbal dressing-down
Prefectural Gov. Yuhei Sato tore into the president of Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO), the operator of the Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant, during a visit by the utility chief to apologize for the ongoing nuclear crisis afflicting the prefecture.

"You will understand nothing about what's really going on just by visiting for two or three hours," Sato told TEPCO President Masataka Shimizu and his projected successor Toshio Nishizawa during a meeting in the governor's office in the Fukushima Prefectural Office on June 21. "You try living in Fukushima for 100 days or so."

The pair of TEPCO executives made no reply, only hanging their heads in shame.

The meeting lasted only about 10 minutes, during which Shimizu said, "We have brought distrust upon nuclear power as a whole, and terrible trouble to everyone in society."
More: mdn.mainichi.jp
by joniver 6/22/2011 4:50:29 PM

@elaine never stop digging... go elaine go
by dean 6/22/2011 4:51:41 PM

@Edano This is a suggestion to use as a last ditch effort before they start dumping in into the sea because they are out of room.
by lillymunster 6/22/2011 4:52:00 PM

@edano I am just musing over what was quake what was tsunami @dean lol hurrah I can go put kettle on
by Elaine Kirk 6/22/2011 4:52:20 PM

@edano tea or coffee ;)
by Elaine Kirk 6/22/2011 4:52:46 PM

@Elaine Kirk ceylon assam.
by Edano 6/22/2011 4:53:41 PM

Fishermen unload at Chiba port to avoid Fukushima label
Fishermen from this city changed their destination for the unloading of 17 tons of bonito from a port here to one in Chiba Prefecture after brokers warned them that customers wouldn't buy fish with a Fukushima label.

"I had predicted there would be an effect, but I was shocked to hear that Fukushima fish won't sell at all," said Tetsu Nozaki, president of the company that caught the fish.
According to Nozaki, the bonito catch was made around 300 kilometers off Ibaraki Prefecture on June 19, and the unloading was planned for Onahama Port in Iwaki on the morning of June 21. It was to be the first bonito landing of the season at the port, which reopened on June 16.

Ahead of the landing, however, brokers at the port contacted others in charge of markets in different regions and were warned that since an unloading at Onahama Port would give the fish a label saying it was from Fukushima Prefecture, consumers would likely avoid the product. Brokers at the port judged that if the fish were unloaded at Onahama, they wouldn't be able to find buyers.
More:
mdn.mainichi.jp
by joniver 6/22/2011 4:54:18 PM

@lillymunster i guess there must be a reason why tepco did not even think about that. (as far as i know)
by Edano 6/22/2011 4:55:06 PM

@Edano Do we know that for sure? This is the company that is putting a tent on a reactor they can't control the humidity in.... Maybe if we tell them it will raise their stock price. ;-)
by lillymunster 6/22/2011 4:56:03 PM

one point of interest and perhaps significance... as we have seen from photo's large cracks in pavement or concrete around the fuku plants, what we don't know is are those cracks extensive enough to reach sub water levels and all the moisture or spraying down of buildings leaking contaminated water to the acquifer... I didn't see where they were going around patching the pavement and concrete
by dean 6/22/2011 5:05:54 PM

@dean : luckily, there is no aquifer around the plants. the groundwater just pours into the ocean.
by Edano 6/22/2011 5:07:13 PM

they've lowered the flow of makeup water to the reactors as we've seen.. but, what if they stop water makeup to maintain the trench and nasty water level,, and do some sore of leak rate test to see how much water they are loosing... take measurements in tanks etc... they don't know what the true leak rate is nor if it's changed dramatically
by dean 6/22/2011 5:07:29 PM

@lillymunster, good afternoon, as to ponds, if they built the first ponds at the highest elevations on the grounds, they could build another tier below and even perhaps a third tier. At the very bottom you could dig a ditch behind a berm and sink wells to pump the ground water into the highest elevation, a bit like the Hanging Gardens of Semiramis.
by Peter Melzer 6/22/2011 5:09:08 PM

the geologists on DISCOVERY show had they can map the core of the earth.. I would think they could get some way to do the same for all grounds around fuku ie: large fissures opened that cannot be seen etc.. to get a good idea
by dean 6/22/2011 5:09:50 PM

@dean :) we even fly to jupiter and uranus, but still cannot handle a nuclear power plant ;)
by Edano 6/22/2011 5:11:13 PM

@Peter Melzer The topo map Elaine found this morning watchizu.gsi.go.jp
by lillymunster 6/22/2011 5:11:49 PM

ha ha... your right Edano,,, I keep thinking they are managing inside the crisis bubble and not backing out and looking enough at the grander big picture
by dean 6/22/2011 5:12:20 PM

@dean: you're very right. one problem is surely that a global disaster is in the hands of a local, very small power company. this is one thing i cannot understand. they should better occupy engineers, scientists and universities all over the world with this mess. another strange thing is that they obviously cannot locate the corium. the whole water is uneconomic if they just pour it in without knowing where the radiation really stems from.
by Edano 6/22/2011 5:16:45 PM

@dean Wouldn't it be possible to roughly calculate the amount of leaked water by estimating the levels of water in the different buildings and comparing with the amount of water that has been pumped? I assume TEPCO has been keeping
record of the amount of water being pumped into the reactors.
by Pedro Jesus 6/22/2011 5:17:51 PM

that's what I'd think @ Pedro and that is a gross way of telling or have by now, some metering capability on the purge water... I haven't seen anything more than the rate the estimate of pouring water in .. and that there are leaks...
by dean 6/22/2011 5:19:24 PM

we could become billionaires with a patent on a "corium locator". in medicine it is no problem to render 3D aspects from tomographies with only simple xrays. it is even simplier if you want to locate a rad source - scintigraphie it is called ...
by Edano 6/22/2011 5:22:40 PM

The Real News: Nebraska nuclear plant Ft. Calhoun - Media Blackout Enforced youtu.be
by Majj 6/22/2011 5:25:17 PM

@lillymunster , the map does not want to work. It shows and immediately vanishes. I shall play with it. Because of talked about the Corps role of protecting downstream properties in context with Calhoun last night. I recall the NASHVILLE FLOOD: data.tennessean.com . The Gaylord Entertainment Co. lost hundreds of millions of dollars because the OPRYLAND HOTEL was flooded. They tried to blame it on the Corps. Turns out the Corps does inspect levees, public and private, and makes recommendations. The Corps first interest is to protect the dams from failing. Other than a slap on the wrist for bad communications, nobody could stick anything on the Corps. Even when the mismanagement is more obvious like Mr. Go in New Orleans: en.wikipedia.org , it is difficult to lay blame on the Corps, because their projects are so much directed by local and regional politics. In sum, if anything happens to Calhoun or Cooper the utilities will most likely be stuck with the liabilities.
by Peter Melzer 6/22/2011 5:25:58 PM

@dean I think we could roughly calculate the amount of water that has been pumped if we made a map of the different pumped water rates in all three reactors. That should be simple math. The problem then is knowing how much water those buildings can hold and what the water level is in each of them at the present moment. I don't understand why these calculations haven't been made available by the operator. Maybe they would hint a leakage of biblical proportions but that would arise the big question... where is that water going to? The radiation readings we've had access to so far do not indicate major leaks. Even WHOI reports say the readings they got from their expedition are hard to accurately evaluate because there is very little concentration of radioactive particles in the ocean water. That is the big mystery.
by Pedro Jesus 6/22/2011 5:26:38 PM

@Edano , as I said something like a giant SPECT could do it, :)
by Peter Melzer 6/22/2011 5:26:50 PM

@Majj www.omaha.com www.wowt.com
by lillymunster 6/22/2011 5:27:02 PM

@Peter Melzer : they have huge scintigraphs in airports to check the freight. it is not impossible to think of a bigger, modulated, transportable one.
by Edano 6/22/2011 5:29:14 PM

@Peter Melzer you are a kind of medical engineer, aren't you ?
by Edano 6/22/2011 5:31:23 PM

@Majj That's some disturbing footage.
by radioguy 6/22/2011 5:31:45 PM

@Edano The problem is there is a lot of radiation around the plant. Too much interference for sensitive equipment to operate with enough accuracy. It is easier when you're operating the equipment in an environment with only very low background radiation.
by Pedro Jesus 6/22/2011 5:31:52 PM