Japan Earthquake | Page 1737

  • @majj just reading :)
    @Veenie don't tell her but I bought 50 shares in angie by search - fbook
    by Elaine Kirk 6/24/2011 1:00:14 AM

  • @Elaine, does this sound familiar at all? Upgraded or changed control rods added to unit 3 before the 1999 mox install?
    by lillymunster 6/24/2011 1:01:28 AM

  • @lillymunster mmm yup
    by Elaine Kirk 6/24/2011 1:09:50 AM

  • @lillymunster You BETTER get busy, I want my Dividends :-O
    www.empireavenue.com
    by Veenie 6/24/2011 1:11:44 AM

  • Good morning all
    by bo 6/24/2011 1:12:01 AM

  • @all Good Morning...Good Evening...Hello!
    by smoss 6/24/2011 1:12:05 AM

  • @Veenie Do you get a bump if I go buy something else? I bought all the shares in you I could.
    by lillymunster 6/24/2011 1:18:40 AM

  • @lillymunster sorry UI am just getting the doc for you must be more careful sorry again for delete
    by elainekirk 6/24/2011 1:20:05 AM

  • @smoss Back to finishing that 2001 Greenpeace report on MOX. Every page has some shocking new revelation. The info of "this bad thing happens with MOX" corresponds to something that happened at 3....
    by lillymunster 6/24/2011 1:20:15 AM

  • @lillymunster I have NO CLUE ))..Elaine is the PRO Bernanki :-O
    by Veenie 6/24/2011 1:22:25 AM

  • @elainekirk good work on the fissure near #1 (that word is so appropriate)
    by bo 6/24/2011 1:22:38 AM

  • @lillymunster www2.jnes.go.jp that one will just do 06-10
    by elainekirk 6/24/2011 1:23:04 AM

  • @lillymunster anything happening /hapened at 3 will be nothing compared to munju if they restart it tick tick tick
    @bo good evening I will go put the kettle on
    by elainekirk 6/24/2011 1:25:07 AM

  • back
    by dean 6/24/2011 1:26:43 AM

  • @lillymunster This is me agreeing. Although the idea of plutonium management makes sense to me (with reguard to MOX), so many variables with reguard to it's performance, seems to make attention to detail paramount with it's use. (as we all know, when it comes to attention to detail, it looses importance when it comes to paying attention to the bottom line $$$)
    by smoss 6/24/2011 1:27:37 AM

  • @dh If you are around...I would love your amazing help with translating this on.

    by smoss 6/24/2011 1:29:02 AM

  • @lilly.. two values at a nuclear plant that deal with safety... POSITIVE or NEGATIVE TEMPERATURE FEEDBACK... and POSITIVE or NEGATIVE REACTIVITY COEFFICIENT.
    by dean 6/24/2011 1:32:15 AM

  • negative temp coefficient is best because as temperature goes up.. the reactivity affect goes down and power goes with it
    by dean 6/24/2011 1:32:54 AM

  • @smoss The points of how it makes so many other things more difficult or worse in a melt down type accident were beyond anyone's control at 3 at some point.
    by lillymunster 6/24/2011 1:33:37 AM

  • then .. excess reactivity plays in as well as shutdown margin which we've all heart about... all of which is selected to protect the fuel failure margins...
    by dean 6/24/2011 1:34:05 AM

  • @dean From what I understand controlling a reactor with MOX in it sounds much more difficult. Also, if it starts to go downhill it can do so quickly.
    by lillymunster 6/24/2011 1:35:31 AM

  • @ lilly, it's a complex thing because all the coefficients have to be rolled up into affects which are caused by temp, pressure, voids and reactivity... I'll try to find a good overall so it's easier to understand. MOX fuel does act different that Low Enriched Fuel for sure
    by dean 6/24/2011 1:38:48 AM

  • When Tepco Shares Are the Family Jewels blogs.wsj.com
    by bo 6/24/2011 1:39:16 AM

  • I fond a piece on MOX fuel, interesting to see if it matches what we've found here..
    by dean 6/24/2011 1:46:53 AM

  • Japanese Inventory of Separated Plutonium (2009)

    Japan's inventory of separated plutonium at the end of 2009 was published on September 7, 2010 by the Japan Atomic Energy Commission. The end of year inventory has been published for each year since 1993. A shipment from France of 1,508 kgHM of plutonium oxide arrived in Japan in January 1993. The shipment caused an international uproar. Japan responded by publishing its plutonium inventory in an attempt to increase transparency. The figures published were for "total plutonium", but since 2006 the figures for Japanese plutonium held in France and the UK have only been published for "fissile plutonium", making precise calculation of Japan's total plutonium holdings difficult.

    Japan's pluthermal program (using MOX fuel) began in 2009, ten years later than planned. Plutonium shipped and loaded into reactors is reflected in the figures in these tables. The 1,458 tons of plutonium held as "Unirradiated new fuel at reactor sites etc." includes 210 kg at Fukushima I-3 (TEPCO), 205 kg at Kashiwazaki-Kariwa-3 (TEPCO), 213 kg at Hamaoka-4 (Chubu) and 831 kg at Ikata-3 (Shikoku). (The figures don't add up due to rounding.) The plutonium held at Tokyo Electric Power Company's (TEPCO) reactors was shipped there in MOX fuel over ten years ago. The plutonium held at Chubu Electric's and Shikoku Electric's reactors arrived in MOX fuel from France in May 2009. MOX fuel for Kyushu Electric's Genkai-3 plant (677 kg) also arrived in May 2009, but it was loaded in the same year, so it is included in "Plutonium loaded in nuclear reactors" under "Separated Plutonium in Use". The remaining 669 kg of the total 1,345 kg plutonium loaded in nuclear reactors was loaded in Monju last year. (Monju started up in May this year.)

    Hideyuki Ban (CNIC Co-Director)
    by dean 6/24/2011 1:47:41 AM

  • MOX fuel presents some negative features when used as fuel in a reactor that is a light water reactor.. and the program is called a PLUTHERMAL program
    by dean 6/24/2011 1:48:57 AM

  • The plan to burn MOX fuel in light water reactors is called the pluthermal program in Japan. In the core of a pluthermal reactor, there are ten times more actinides such as plutonium, americium, and curium than the core of a uranium reactor. Actinides cause serious internal exposure in human bodies and thus pose a very serious threat to human health.

    In short, exposure doses resulting from an accident at a pluthermal reactor would be twice those produced by an accident at a uranium reactor. A given exposure dose would be received by residents over twice the distance. The overall affected area would be four times larger
    by dean 6/24/2011 1:50:07 AM

  • ”MOX in a reactor is more unsafe because plutonium is more reactive and this hotter fuel can cause increased localised melting of fuel in the reactor.”
    by dean 6/24/2011 1:52:59 AM

  • MOX also creates a higher flux level which can have increased stress corrosion on core components.
    by dean 6/24/2011 1:54:16 AM

  • @dean I read something that it can start turning parts of itself to aerosol type particles in a low heat range. There are also concerns about the manufacture process and that uneven mixing of the plutonium and uranium would make hot spots that could crack or blister the cladding.
    by lillymunster 6/24/2011 1:55:47 AM

  • all true lilly, why I was against mox from day one and was involved on some of the testing.. it's like I was saying long ago.. I don't like taking an original reactor design with it's inherent safety features with the fuels used and make drastic changes like introducing a new fuel system
    by dean 6/24/2011 1:59:30 AM

  • twitpic.com nice photo if you don't have it on the web @ lilly

    by dean via Twitpic 6/24/2011 2:00:28 AM

  • lh6.googleusercontent.com on this photo I was trying to see any projectile penetrations in #4

    by dean via Lh6.googleusercontent 6/24/2011 2:02:12 AM

  • sorry for changing the topic.. I just wanted to put those up...
    by dean 6/24/2011 2:02:31 AM

  • I think those are the digital globe shots.
    by lillymunster 6/24/2011 2:06:12 AM

  • yes... I enlarged the last one to see the side of #4 I couldn't remember what is was like
    by dean 6/24/2011 2:06:56 AM

  • img851.imageshack.us
    Still trying to get a definate on the control rods used with the mox @lilly

    by Elaine Kirk via Img851.imageshack.us 6/24/2011 2:08:20 AM

  • @ELAINE.. in what way on the control rods?
    by dean 6/24/2011 2:14:30 AM

  • @dean The Greenpeace report I was reading talked about installing improved control rods before running MOX in a BWR
    by lillymunster 6/24/2011 2:15:14 AM

  • If they loaded mox into the sfp in august 2010 were they the 99 or were they new arrivals?
    by Elaine Kirk 6/24/2011 2:17:23 AM

  • @lilly I think the control rods had to have more worth reactively so they probably used a different composite material
    by dean 6/24/2011 2:17:55 AM

  • wait on that ,,, just a sec
    by dean 6/24/2011 2:21:06 AM

  • @elainekirk That is the million dollar question! @dean Then is hafnium blade-type control rod appropriate for use with the extended-burnup mixed oxide fuels?
    by smoss 6/24/2011 2:22:29 AM

  • @Elaine Kirk From what all has been found so far they did not have a new load brought in from France. IIRC the Kashiwazaki order was slightly smaller than Fuku's. Did they borrow some of Kashiwzaki's? We don't know. Finding those supposed monthly inspection reports we read about would say for sure. If they borrowed kashi's rods they would be 4 rods short. So publicly known shipment from France - probably no. Borrowing Kashi's rods - possibly, the 4 rod difference and other factors might make this less so but we are missing info on how this is regulated or not regulated.
    by lillymunster 6/24/2011 2:25:21 AM

  • I think that main thing in MOX is it maked the control rods less affective and, if there is a problem with inserting control rods accompanied with accidents the control rods would be less affective during the reactivity transients
    by dean 6/24/2011 2:28:32 AM

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