@Peter Melzer Someone who actually has power to decide seems to have lost the plot ages ago.
by Pedro Jesus 6/24/2011 6:28:10 PM
@Peter Melzer when i read the lochbaum article, it seems that there are lots of valves regulating pressure and temperature, while the water level is neglected. this could be explained by the fact that the valves need no electrical power to work, they are passive, while pumping in water (against the pressure) needs in any case electrical power. the big problem i see in this fact is, that this dilemma applies to every kind of reactor, not just bwr. they all need power to fill up the water level when steam is lost. for me, there is a major construction problem.
by Edano 6/24/2011 6:32:49 PM
@RadioGuy I really believe, that CNN and Fox news have opposing viewpoints and political goals. But they both want viewers. If alot of people were clamoring for ongoing, detailed info on Fuku, they would provide it. The same with Cooper and Calhoun. But the US is not being affected the way Japan is and to most people, they do NOT care. When I talk about it to most of my friends, their eyes glaze over. The internet has a tendency to magnify interest in any particular issue.
by RBeaner 6/24/2011 6:32:58 PM
@Pedro @RBeaner It's all about money. I guess I wish I had the same faith in humanity that you both obviously have. If the nuclear industry was truly forthcoming about risks and info with the public they would cease to exist.....
by LM 6/24/2011 6:33:16 PM
@LM If it is only about the money then some people in power in Japan must be cursing about their decision to support nuclear some decades ago. This accident is killing one of the biggest Japanese industries, the automotive. Toyota has already lost its leading position and is likely to drop to 3RD place. The economic impact of this is tremendous. And this is only the tip of the iceberg.
by Pedro Jesus 6/24/2011 6:38:18 PM
@Pedro Correct....and it was great and lucrative while it lasted. They rode the money train and failed to look at the potential risks of putting all their eggs in one basket. It is about the money..there and here. The US will pay the price as well, but until the next accident happens they'll be riding it to the bank!
by LM 6/24/2011 6:41:24 PM
Big business at every level in the US is a perfect example of this. They're not providing a service out of the goodness of their hearts.
by LM 6/24/2011 6:43:09 PM
I realize this is a grand generalization and there are exceptions. I'm just aggravated.
by LM 6/24/2011 6:44:00 PM
@LM I really don't think it is directly about money, just in a roundabout way. The Drudge Report is the most popular aggregator of news in the US. I was surprised to find this link on Drudge today www.breitbart.com but that is probably the second in the last month. Most people (in the US) don't care about Fuku, and the only things that get TV time are the things the producers think will put eyes on the set.
by RBeaner 6/24/2011 6:46:09 PM
@Edano , it seems that the emergency core cooling pumps are sensitive to water levels in the reactor and, lo and behold, BWR4 provides pumps to make up reactor coolant that are driven by their own turbines using steam produced by the decay heat. Nifty provisions! Alas, they did not work. In essence I agree with you.
by Peter Melzer 6/24/2011 6:46:17 PM
@RBeaner people don't care because it's not in their face, and it's not in their face because they don't care. But you underestimate the influence of msm nowadays. Lindsay Lohan is splashed all over and thats a choice of the MSM to interpret what people "want" to hear.
by Panserbjorne9 6/24/2011 6:50:12 PM
@RBeaner You're surprised that there's a link to Breitbart from Drudge Report? Wow...I'm not. The fact that Fox News is so popular in the US merely confirms my hypothesis.
by LM 6/24/2011 6:51:08 PM
As to the credibility of Tepco, the company does not seem to falsify facts outright. They omit to tell us crucial insights which makes gaining insights so frustrating. The debriefing of the plant manager of the Fukushima I NPP must be priceless. Imagine what that man must know! I am sure he wrote his brief already, and the leaders of the corporation keep his insights to themselves.
by Peter Melzer 6/24/2011 6:52:37 PM
As an afterthought, if I was Kan, I'd ask for it.
by Peter Melzer 6/24/2011 6:53:53 PM
@LM not at all surprised by brietbart, surprised by an article talking about fukushima. There have been so few of them in the "popular" media, even on line. I'm not talking MSM, I'm talking what general, large numbers, of people are interested in.
by RBeaner 6/24/2011 6:54:51 PM
@Panserbjorne9 Think what you want, but those media outlets (in my opinion) are giving the widest majority, what they want to here. If they are taking about Lohan and Weiner, then their highly paid staff has determined that's what people want to hear about, in the US anyway.
by RBeaner 6/24/2011 6:58:04 PM
@RBeaner I honestly believe people would be more interested if they were included in the conversation. When you're spoon fed..everything is safe look away, look away...then you don't really care about it. And that's exactly what they want from the public.
by LM 6/24/2011 6:58:20 PM
@LM I honestly believe people would be more interested if theythought they were going to be impacted in the near term or they thought they could have an impact on the outcome. But they don't to either. I truly believe most people (US) have no concept of what has happened in Japan, it's a world away.
by RBeaner 6/24/2011 7:00:58 PM
@RBeaner I agree, but I think the nuclear industry has been incredibly successful in their PR campaign. Most people believe the crisis is over because that is all they've heard. I believe strategic decisions were made to do clean-up...I'm cynical.
by LM 6/24/2011 7:05:57 PM
@Peter Melzer which company makes the valve? who owns the design patent? it isnt unknown for these big comps to freeze out firms maybe it wasnt used because ....
by Elaine Kirk 6/24/2011 7:07:23 PM
all is good ! look away ! good that we have independent experts !
Simulation model projects radiation diffusion
Researchers say radioactive substances leaked from the Fukushima Daiichi plant will reach ocean waters 4,000 kilometers away from the plant within a year of the nuclear accident.
Using a computer simulation model, Japan's science ministry predicted how the radioactive cesium 137 that leaked from the Fukushima plant will spread in the Pacific Ocean.
The computer image shows that, as of April of next year, cesium 137 will reach eastern waters around 4,000 kilometers away from the Fukushima plant.
The highest concentration is projected at 0.023 becquerels per liter -- that's about 14 times the normal level, but still only one-three-thousandth of safe limits.
3 years after the accident, the radioactive materials are forecast to diffuse further in waters north of Hawaii, lowering concentration levels.
The radioactive substances will reach the US west coast in 5 years. Seven years after the initial accident, the concentration level is predicted to be close to normal.
Masanao Nakano, a senior engineer at the Japan Atomic Energy Agency, says that in one year, the radiation concentration level will become so low that eating fish from even the most contaminated areas would pose little danger to health.
@LM I to am cynical, but not just of companies and msm, but also of the public. What is in it for each of them? Future stock prices, obedience and future votes and continued carefree living (in that order). Most people seem to be into titilation, not the things that really matter for them, and the news media complies. One of the news shows yesterday showed a couple of hours of cops chasing a biker,... that was on national news. To me, who cares, but they are in it for the money and my guess is they get more viewers when they show that crap. I believe in small conspiracies, but not big ones.
by RBeaner 6/24/2011 7:13:26 PM
@Edano Bioaccumulation? What's that? Our physics models don't show it!
by Bobby1 6/24/2011 7:13:31 PM
@Bobby1 : you can read the sentence like this: "eating fish from the most contaminated areas would pose a little danger to health."
by Edano 6/24/2011 7:15:35 PM
@Edano Why are these people posing as doctors? What do they know about health effects of these poisons? How do they get away with this?
by Bobby1 6/24/2011 7:17:49 PM
@RBeaner When I say 'big business' I include the press in that...enough said. I respect your opinion but I honestly believe the nuke industry is not much different than big tobacco or big oil. As far as I'm concerned they're all the same.
by LM 6/24/2011 7:19:29 PM
@Bobby1 How do you know there are not doctors involved in the scientific study?
by Pedro Jesus 6/24/2011 7:19:56 PM
@Pedro Jesus There is a medical specialty called "toxicology" that deals with health problems from intake of poisons. They are the ones that should be offering opinions, not biased nuke boosters.
by Bobby1 6/24/2011 7:21:09 PM
@Bobby1 Did you read my question?
by Pedro Jesus 6/24/2011 7:21:56 PM
@edano now why did nhk publish first are they expecting a damning report from elsewhere and want to lessen its newsworthiness? I amm always suspicious when nhk speak in what appears to be a non nuke friiendly fashion
by Elaine Kirk 6/24/2011 7:22:43 PM
@Pedro Jesus What study? I didn't see a study mentioned.
by Bobby1 6/24/2011 7:22:47 PM
do we know what impact the radiation has on plancton ? what happens if it will kill immediately a big part of it ? we will definitely lose the north pacific fauna.
by Edano 6/24/2011 7:23:45 PM
@LM You and I seem to agree about "big Business" in general. The Nuke industry, oil industry, gas fracking industry and big Pharma are all very similar, they wnt to extract profits. Basically by any means. I tend to think there is enough opposition in the vearious presses, to "exploit" public opinion, if a significant interested viewership exists.
by RBeaner 6/24/2011 7:25:32 PM
@Elaine Kirk : nhk has released some surprisingly cinical articles about nukes in the last time. it seems they have (had ?) one or two critical minds in their team.
by Edano 6/24/2011 7:26:24 PM
@Bobby1 Computer simulations are usually designed over the analysis of scientific studies otherwise they don't have much factual scientific relevance. I mean, in that particular context. That was what I was asking. What simulations did they use and what's the scientific background behind them. I was asking, not implying anything.
by Pedro Jesus 6/24/2011 7:27:42 PM
@Edano It is possible that they are marketing themselves in the expectation of needing new shareholders :)
by Elaine Kirk 6/24/2011 7:28:16 PM
@Elaine Kirk : are there nuke critical shareholders in japan ? ;)
by Edano 6/24/2011 7:29:58 PM
@Edano We will know in the coming months. There are at least two studies being conducted that focus on that issue [of the impact on north pacific fauna and flora]. One by Greenpeace and one by WHOI.
by Pedro Jesus 6/24/2011 7:30:02 PM
@Edano Ah good point
by Elaine Kirk 6/24/2011 7:30:54 PM
@Pedro Jesus I don't know what study has ever said that eating contaminated fish is ok.
by Bobby1 6/24/2011 7:31:36 PM
i want to say, you cannot simply state: haha, radiation will dilute and everything is okay afterwards. it could well be that the mess sterilizes the north pacific.
by Edano 6/24/2011 7:31:57 PM
Another thing is the atmospheric contamination and radiation in rainfall polluting the Pacific, this would occur far away from the water discharged by Fuku.
by Bobby1 6/24/2011 7:34:49 PM
@Bobby1 People have been eating contaminated food for decades. I'm pretty sure there are loads of studies about it out there. I'm pretty sure the scientific community didn't just invent the safety limits. Some of my university ex-mates in the marine biology area have been conducting such studies for over a decade now. There are levels of risk that are constantly evaluated regarding the concentration of toxicity in food.
by Pedro Jesus 6/24/2011 7:36:05 PM
I'm off to work now. See you all later.
by Pedro Jesus 6/24/2011 7:37:06 PM
@Pedro Jesus : do you really believe that safety limits are set up to protect consumers ? no, they exist simply to protect the producers from court trials by the "damaged" consumers.