Japan Earthquake | Page 1756

  • @lillymunster still on saturday night here :)
    by Elaine Kirk 6/25/2011 10:14:32 PM

  • Nikkei index Saturday 25th Tokyo Electric power Company, Inc plunged 27% to 207 yen after Kyodo News reported that the company may post as much as 570 billion yen loss in the current year as it shifts to thermal power generation after the devastating loss at Fukushima nuclear power plant. www.tradestocks-online.info
    by Elaine Kirk 6/25/2011 10:17:37 PM

  • #2 water gauge replacement not working. www3.nhk.or.jp
    by lillymunster 6/25/2011 10:20:32 PM

  • @Elaine Kirk I was thinking out loud. ;-)
    by lillymunster 6/25/2011 10:20:55 PM

  • @lillymunster lol Lilly I need to ask you something .....do you think we are missing a party somewhere, I think they have all gone out on the town and left us here alone gazing into the tepco soup
    by Elaine Kirk 6/25/2011 10:25:43 PM

  • listening
    by Edano 6/25/2011 10:27:16 PM

  • TEPCO ready to inject nitrogen into No.2 reactor

    Tokyo Electric Power Company is ready to inject nitrogen into the containment vessel of the Number 2 reactor at its Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant to prevent hydrogen blasts.

    The company says it will monitor radiation levels around the compound more closely as the nitrogen may force out tiny amounts of gas containing radioactive substances.

    Work is underway at the damaged nuclear plant to decontaminate water and inject it back into the reactor for cooling.

    But if the reactors are cooled to a stable level, less moisture will be produced, raising the ratio of hydrogen in the air.

    Hydrogen can cause an explosion when it reacts with oxygen.

    TEPCO has been pumping nitrogen into the No.1 reactor since April and has completed preparations to do the same at the No. 2 reactor.

    The utility assessed the possible effects of nitrogen injection into the No.2 reactor, and submitted its report to the government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency on Friday.

    It plans to start the injection as soon as it obtains the consent of the agency.

    Sunday, June 26, 2011 02:50 +0900 (JST)
    www3.nhk.or.jp
    by Edano 6/25/2011 10:31:25 PM

  • @Edano hello :)
    by Elaine Kirk 6/25/2011 10:33:00 PM

  • @Elaine Kirk :)
    by Edano 6/25/2011 10:33:34 PM

  • this is the only news.
    by Edano 6/25/2011 10:34:17 PM

  • @Elaine Kirk rather quiet on the news front and here. Some decent weather in the US, might have people running outside to enjoy it. Seems like there is just no Fuku news today.
    by lillymunster 6/25/2011 10:34:37 PM

  • @lillymunster , did you find my post?
    by Peter Melzer 6/25/2011 10:34:46 PM

  • OK tweedom is busy filling the news void
    @jakeadelstein
    Jake Adelstein
    When did things at TEPCO nuclear plant start to go wrong? During WW2, when Einstein warned the US that Germany was researching an atom bomb.
    by Elaine Kirk 6/25/2011 10:35:18 PM

  • www.tepco.co.jp
    Why there is in unit 4 status
    by xxx 6/25/2011 10:35:50 PM

  • removing fuel ?
    by xxx 6/25/2011 10:35:58 PM

  • @Elaine Kirk , that darn Heisenberg!
    by Peter Melzer 6/25/2011 10:36:06 PM

  • Utilities face 'denuclearization' motions as shareholders gather english.kyodonews.jp
    by Edano 6/25/2011 10:38:52 PM

  • @Peter Melzer rofl
    by Elaine Kirk 6/25/2011 10:41:28 PM

  • @Peter Melzer I think i found the right one. I saved it as a draft (non public) on the group website tools. It was IIRC two paragraphs that asked some questions, does that sound right?
    by lillymunster 6/25/2011 10:45:39 PM

  • It had the image of the reactor computer report and this as the first part. 1) "All U.S. nuclear power plants are built to withstand external hazards, including earthquakes, flooding, and tsunamis, as appropriate."

    How can we be certain that the measures implemented in the US are appropriate? We have not even yet fully uncovered the causes for the reactor accidents at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station.
    by lillymunster 6/25/2011 10:46:49 PM

  • §1 Our reactors are safe.
    §2 In case of accident, refer to §1.
    by Edano edited by Edano 6/25/2011 10:48:34 PM

  • @Edano have you seen the copies of the quake reactor logs below edano?
    by Elaine Kirk 6/25/2011 10:56:33 PM

  • @Elaine Kirk : yes i tried some minutes to understand them but i gave it up.
    by Edano 6/25/2011 10:58:08 PM

  • :edano I will put the kettle on
    by Elaine Kirk 6/25/2011 11:00:44 PM

  • @lillymunster , since I have not learned yet how to access and edit the draft, I post the last version below. The image of the log was for the scribble and is not strictly needed. So here it goes:

    Dear Sir/Madame:

    Thank you for your letter addressing public fears about the safety of nuclear power plants in the US after the catastrophic failure of three nuclear reactors at Fukushima 1 (Daiichi) nuclear power station in Japan in the wake of the Tohoku-Oki Earthquake Mar. 11, 2011.

    We wish to respond to two issues raised in your letter that remain of fundamental concern:

    1) “All U.S. nuclear power plants are built to withstand external hazards, including earthquakes, flooding, and tsunamis, as appropriate.”

    How can we be certain that the measures implemented in the US are appropriate? We have not even fully uncovered the causes for the reactor accidents at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station yet.

    The loss of off-site alternating current (AC) power and the early loss of emergency diesel generators may represent major causes underlying the accident. However, the reactor safety systems of unit 1, as well as of units 2 and 3, are supposedly designed such that the reactor can be cooled and its core covered with water for eight hours, using direct current battery power and decay heat alone. Both were still available for several hours at Fukushima after the loss of all AC power. Despite, lack of coolant caused core melt-down at unit 1 within four hours. How can the NRC claim that reactors of similar design are safe in the US, considering that we do not fully understand the causes instrumental to the catastrophic reactor failures at Fukushima?

    2) “ The NRC believes that it is highly unlikely that a similar combination of events such as those which occurred in Japan could occur in the United States…”

    Since a different combination of similar events cannot be ruled out, this belief seems unwarranted.

    Taken the above concerns into account, we suggest that US reactors of similar design as at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station should be permitted to operate only at 70 percent of their full electrical power output, until a clear understanding of the causes for the three catastrophic reactor failures is reached, most notably because each failure was anticipated to occur only once in ten-thousand years or less.

    Thank you very much for your consideration.
    by Peter Melzer 6/25/2011 11:15:44 PM

  • The last paragraph may differ and, depending on Dean's input, may read:
    Taken the above concerns into account, we suggest that US reactors of similar design as at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station should be required to reduce their electrical power output to a level that improves the safety margins by a factor of 100.
    by Peter Melzer 6/25/2011 11:17:27 PM

  • Great! I have it copied. Were you thinking posting it as a reply to the original letter, I could link to the original and title it in a way that explains that. Does it need a review process? We could either do it here or put it in the peer review section. In the peer review section if someone went digging on the site could view the work in progress. It wouldn't show on the main page until we wanted it to. Let me know. I should be around for a while.
    by lillymunster 6/25/2011 11:26:01 PM

  • Yes, that was the idea. A clear reference to the NRC letter is needed with a date published. Dean would have to decide on which ending to use and what numbers. I hope I remembered the number of hours DC availability correctly, :)
    by Peter Melzer 6/25/2011 11:53:52 PM

  • @Peter Melzer let me know after you and Dean decide on the ending etc. I will put the new version you just posted into my draft copy. I can make final changes based on what you and Dean determine. I have the NRC letter posted on the web site so easy to link over to it.
    by lillymunster 6/25/2011 11:56:26 PM

  • Hi all! Just checked Tepco cam...raining again. SFPs must be really hot...Daytime steam show brewing.
    by LM 6/25/2011 11:59:32 PM

  • @all Any info on SFP temps?
    by LM 6/26/2011 12:00:18 AM

  • @lillymunster , great. The ending depends more on Dean than on me. He proposed this idea of reducing the power output to improve the safety margin. I would not know what realistic values are.
    by Peter Melzer 6/26/2011 12:02:05 AM

  • I must be losing it. Does 1 look like it is at an angle?
    by lillymunster 6/26/2011 12:03:11 AM

  • @Lilly Sort of...but probably just camera angle. They've had a bunch of 4.0's today.
    by LM 6/26/2011 12:04:19 AM

  • @Lilly Although...now that I look at it...maybe. Something worth noting for sure.
    by LM 6/26/2011 12:05:25 AM

  • back,
    by dean 6/26/2011 12:06:06 AM

  • @LM I will do some angle comparisons. Things closer up look vertical. Things down by the reactor buildings looks almost at an angle.
    by lillymunster 6/26/2011 12:06:10 AM

  • @Lilly Good idea. Given some of the photos all of you have posted showing the ground fissures, I wouldn't be surprised if the aftershocks and rain were causing more shifting and potentially sinking.
    by LM 6/26/2011 12:08:07 AM

  • peter,, I sped read your letter.. it's good,,, I would try to add something on the lines of a real issue not figured out in analyses on nuclear reactors.. that is,,, off normal events like loss of off site power that are "EXTENDED"...I believe that is one thing accross the board of major concern...
    by dean 6/26/2011 12:10:54 AM

  • @LM I have some older photos from the TEPCO cam video. I can compare against those looking for changes. The big fissure Elaine found at #1 plus there is also possibly a fissure or something past #4. We can't tell because they threw metal plate all over and scraped ground but there were low spots under the plate edges just about the same location as on the end of 1, past the end of 4 like it was one big long line of earth disrupted.
    by lillymunster 6/26/2011 12:12:04 AM

  • every analysis that I have seen early on my career stopped at some point and depended on human intervention like restoration of flow, or power, or cooling etc.. and when they let the codes run.. they uncovered concerns what caused modifications and in many cases reduced power operation until something could be done..
    by dean 6/26/2011 12:12:47 AM

  • @Lilly The constant rain is a huge source of concern. With water piling up and a forced decrease in flow to SFPs and cores temps are going to rise. What a high wire act they're attempting!
    by LM 6/26/2011 12:14:45 AM

  • @all Good Evening...Good Morning...Hello!
    by smoss 6/26/2011 12:18:14 AM

  • Hi Smoss!

    @LM - checked against a picture from June 10. The building lean has been there since at least then.
    by lillymunster 6/26/2011 12:20:22 AM

  • @lillymunster Hi!
    by smoss 6/26/2011 12:21:39 AM

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