Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1807

@bo Will try to get an idea what is potentially where based on the AEC list and put something together.
by lillymunster 7/1/2011 3:32:31 PM

The things you stumble across. arcticcircle.uconn.edu
by lillymunster via Arcticcircle.uconn.edu 7/1/2011 3:36:02 PM

@lilly I love burrowing into the National Archives. It would be my pleasure.
by bo 7/1/2011 3:36:05 PM

@lilly I have an extensive file of AEC and Army Special Weapons Project docs on exposures of troops during nuclear tests.
by bo 7/1/2011 3:37:12 PM

@bo I have been wanting to do a tag along when they hubby has to go to DC for a few days so I can go play in the national archives and library of congress. :-) So much cool obscure stuff.
by lillymunster 7/1/2011 3:37:14 PM

@bo It was just such an odd thing to pop up, was looking for image files for AEC documents. There is so much of that kind of thing but people have forgotten
by lillymunster 7/1/2011 3:38:32 PM

FYI, #4 is steaming away on teppy cam, every morning now for a week at least. Also in the last 3 days tepco changed the lighting so now we can't see what is going on at #4 at night on the JNN feed. Not very nice of them, eh?
by Deb 7/1/2011 3:48:03 PM

back
by dean 7/1/2011 3:50:19 PM

@Deb oh that stinks, you know it is on purpose too. So TEPCO puts out this PR document yesterday showing all this nice clean stuff at #4. Then shut off the lights and we see the water levels dropping with no explanation... Call me paranoid. I don't trust this, something is up.
by lillymunster 7/1/2011 3:50:41 PM

agree with that @ Deb
by dean 7/1/2011 3:50:48 PM

@lillymunster Makes me suspicious as well
by deb 7/1/2011 3:52:32 PM

@lilly to me this stuff seems so familiar because this is the kind of document that I work with everyday. You'll love the archives. They are astonishing. A bit overwhelming at first, and you have to go through a serious orientation since you can't bring pens in, and you have to learn how to handle the documents. Many people have stolen historical material in the past, or, as in the case of a Clinton appointee, tried to hide the paper trail connected to his work!
by bo 7/1/2011 3:53:40 PM

@bo I have been researching the pathfinder experimental reactor when I have time or need a change of research scenery. There are huge gaps in information readily available online. Lots of basic information, no details at all about the event that caused them to declare it unusable. They ran it briefly and something went wrong. No details of what went wrong or how are available. Nobody in the area seems to know including the local media. AEC is about the only shot at finding it short of looking up the retired plant employees.
by lillymunster 7/1/2011 3:56:18 PM

@bo I could spend all day in a decent library.
by lillymunster 7/1/2011 3:58:15 PM

@Deb - 7/1 plant parameters are not out yet. The SFP level is a big concern.
by lillymunster 7/1/2011 3:59:20 PM

@lilly that kind of inquiry might take some time in the archives. You would have to find some files and use them to determine what other files to request and keep chasing until you come up with something determinate.
by bo 7/1/2011 4:01:20 PM

Dirty Rats - JNN with lights out www.tsunamioftears.com
by deb via Tsunamioftears 7/1/2011 4:02:13 PM

bo.. hello.. sushi for lunch?
by dean 7/1/2011 4:02:53 PM

@bo Robert Stinnett spent 17 years searching through millions of documents in the national archives and naval archives in order to demonstrate FDR had prior knowledge of Pearl Harbor. His description of his research methods in "Day of Deceit" are as interesting as what he found.
by Bobby1 7/1/2011 4:03:47 PM

@deb.. they will probably say light not available due to scheduled power curtailment to conserve energy
by dean 7/1/2011 4:03:49 PM

@lillymunster , I was away and just scrolled back. The US reactor with the most original design probably is OYSTER CREEK. I have seen NRC documents on the improvements to the torus (I can't find them off-hand). They pertained to a change in the designs of the jets that inject containment steam into the suppression well. They now look like rakes instead of nozzles. This is supposed to distribute the thrust, as Dean said, to prevent that the whole thing does not lift off.

by Peter Melzer 7/1/2011 4:04:07 PM

There was also mentioning of reinforcing the torus with concrete outside.
by Peter Melzer 7/1/2011 4:05:02 PM

@dean hi there. Sushi yes, still sticking to the small Seto Inland Sea fish for now!
by bo 7/1/2011 4:07:44 PM

@lilly working in the archives is truly like treasure hunting. You search and you search, and then, if you are lucky, a diamond.
by bo 7/1/2011 4:08:21 PM

boufosnews.wordpress.com some info on fukushima incidents
by dean 7/1/2011 4:08:41 PM

@bo I found a few AEC documents someone had scanned. Might be enough to make a more focused search at some point.

@Peter, yes, anything related to Oyster Creek would be of great use.
by lillymunster 7/1/2011 4:09:13 PM

I found a potential method to start a document archive via our wordpress web site structure. If it works in testing we could start compiling these digital documents we find.

Have to be out for a bit, will check in when I return.
by lillymunster 7/1/2011 4:12:49 PM

@bo , I came across a number of studies using radioactively labelled compounds administered to people, e.g. the notorious Vanderbilt study: www.theunnecesarean.com , or external sources ionizing radiation, e.g. the Walla Walla prisoner experiments: ct-mtwt.50megs.com Clearly, the generation that met destiny had different of acceptable health risks.
by Peter Melzer 7/1/2011 4:17:09 PM

@bo should read "different ideas..."
by Peter Melzer 7/1/2011 4:17:52 PM

@Peter Melzer there was a clearly articulated ethic during that era that the Communist threat was so dangerous that many things we would judge as crimes against humanity were easily explained away. Now, with most of the victims long gone, the books have been opened on such things. But we should never forget the logic that made those crimes seem logical.
by bo 7/1/2011 4:20:21 PM

www2.jnes.go.jp unit 1 incident report good reading with photo's of failure
by dean 7/1/2011 4:20:48 PM

For this event, the safety relief valve opened automatically, but the reactor shut down manually not automatically (scram). The reason is as follows. While the reactor pressure high scram signal set value (*2) and the safety relief valve open set value (*2) was the same, the actual set values which considers measuring error was set lower for the safety relief valve operation than scram. From now, revision of the set value at which scram is carried out prior to the open of safety relief valve will be considered. this is from that link.. WOW relief pressure setting the same as the scram setting. that's incredibly not right
by dean 7/1/2011 4:24:34 PM

Another comment about how archives give us perspective. An archivist took me aside once and showed me how the published version of the Strategic Bombing Survey of the impact of the bombing of Hiroshima left out a chapter that was in the typed copy. This was a final section which did an assessment of the deaths of school children. This final chapter did a school by school assessment of the dead children. It was determined too controversial to include in the published version, but there it was in all of it's inhumane analytical glory, an assessment of a weapon of mass destruction on children, written to help understand how to use the weapons more effectively.
by bo 7/1/2011 4:25:40 PM

On that happy note, it is tatami time for me. I'm working on an article on this omission, but right now I am working on happy dreams. Good night all.
by bo 7/1/2011 4:27:00 PM

@bo g'night :)
by Elaine Kirk 7/1/2011 4:28:46 PM

@bo have you gone ? is there anything accessible about that?
by Elaine Kirk 7/1/2011 4:30:00 PM

@bo , I guess ignorance about the effects and the war experience may have played a role as well.
Ethics have changed drastically. Today, we cannot justify such means because the subjects of the studies were just black women or just criminals. I was principal investigator on a study involving people. The Institutional Review Boards try to protect people from undo risk at length today.
by Peter Melzer 7/1/2011 4:30:16 PM

lh6.googleusercontent.com
I am no engineer but I would have thought a fast moving mass of water would carry on travelling if it met with this 'defence barrier'
by Elaine Kirk via Lh6.googleusercontent 7/1/2011 4:31:50 PM

this is the result of that incident... The Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station Unit-1 had been under its start-up operation. On February 25, 2009, the turbine bypass valve fully closed at approximately 13% reactor thermal power. Thus the reactor pressure increased to approximately 7.1MPa (rated
pressure: 6.86MPa) and the safety relief valve opened.
by dean 7/1/2011 4:32:01 PM

www2.jnes.go.jp incident reports on fuku..
by dean 7/1/2011 4:32:13 PM

@dean oo have you found those I lost my bookmark I will save that ty
by Elaine Kirk 7/1/2011 4:32:52 PM

@ elaine.. in that design I think they forgot that the tsunami screaming in maybe be ok.. but the screaming water going back into the ocean will sweep those sand bags away..
by dean 7/1/2011 4:33:22 PM

www2.jnes.go.jp @ elaine
by dean 7/1/2011 4:34:32 PM

by Ian 7/1/2011 4:34:43 PM

Dean (and everyone) have you seen the object that looks like the 'handle' of a fuel assembly in SFP3 in my video below? Am I being overly cautious in wondering if it is part of a fuel assembly? Do you know of anything else one might expect to find in a NPP that might look like this?
by Ian 7/1/2011 4:35:10 PM