Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1962

@Ralph Unger According to the dates, these control rod changes were made after MOX was inserted into the core, and during operation...still tweaking translation.
by smoss 7/19/2011 1:39:40 AM

@Ralph Unger after they installed it and were running.... No record I found of stopping #3 after the last restart, messing with control rod placement after starting it up sounds insane.
by lillymunster 7/19/2011 1:40:45 AM

Another couple of frames added to the IR satellite loop of Ma-On. As you can see, it still has yet to veer to the NE as the projections have it. www.ssd.noaa.gov
by RadioGuy 7/19/2011 1:41:52 AM

Ive got it! Just like a wonky toilet they flushed the core somehow into the turbine building? :-) Well, it doesn't sound any stranger than most of the things we hear every day...
by lillymunster 7/19/2011 1:42:01 AM

@lillymunster sounds insane...or desperate (to change control rod configuration during an operating cycle...what were they seeing to warrent this?)
by smoss 7/19/2011 1:42:35 AM

I joked that the hole was so big the whole RPV could have fallen through it. I was joking, right?
by RadioGuy 7/19/2011 1:42:44 AM

@smoss It's baffling, and smacks of something critical we don't know.
by RadioGuy 7/19/2011 1:43:32 AM

@smoss considering yanking out the control rod too much is what caused the SL-1 to go critical, playing with the control rods while running sounds dangerous. We need to ask Dean when he pops by.
by lillymunster 7/19/2011 1:44:10 AM

@lillymunster That's another Onion story in the making.
by RadioGuy 7/19/2011 1:44:18 AM

@RadioGuy Oh don't even go there!

Well there is a well known flaw with that reactor design where the RPV hops off the floor...like a rocket...
by lillymunster 7/19/2011 1:44:36 AM

@lillymunster Oh great.
by RadioGuy 7/19/2011 1:47:25 AM

@all ROFL.........Govt to define "cold shutdown"
The second-stage target to bring the nuclear disaster under control will involve achieving a cold shutdown, under which the disabled reactors are to be cooled down to about 100 degrees Celsius or lower.

The Japanese government is due to make this clear on Tuesday when it releases a revised plan to contain the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The government has so far failed to specify what a cold shutdown entails. It now plans to define the term as bringing reactor-bottom temperatures to about 100 degrees or lower, and substantially reducing the public's radiation exposure by controlling the release of radioactivity.

Achieving a cold shutdown has been cited as one of the conditions for lifting the 20-kilometer no-entry zone around the Fukushima Daiichi plant.

It remains unclear, however, when the lifting would come, as the government still hasn't decided on benchmark levels of radiation that it deems safe enough for people to return to the restricted zone.
www3.nhk.or.jp
by LM 7/19/2011 1:47:35 AM

@lillymunster Like in a thousand foot high, loud as hell explosion that throws huge clanging pieces of metal up in the air?
by RadioGuy 7/19/2011 1:48:35 AM

100 degrees celsius...BOILING! Cold shutdown..huh?
by LM 7/19/2011 1:49:13 AM

Isn't a cold shutdown when no water circulation is needed anymore?
by Ralph Unger 7/19/2011 1:49:17 AM

LOL.... I can NOT believe they are going to use the Kobayashi Maru strategy. If you can't win, change the software/metric/law/alert level.
by RadioGuy 7/19/2011 1:50:30 AM

"A reactor is in cold shutdown when, in addition, its coolant system is at atmospheric pressure and at a temperature below 200 degrees Fahrenheit (approx. 95 degrees Celsius).[1] This temperature is low enough that the water cooling the fuel in a light water reactor does not boil even when the reactor coolant system is de-pressurized.
[edit]"
by Ralph Unger 7/19/2011 1:50:40 AM

@all Apparently...they're even raising the limits on cold shutdowns.
by LM 7/19/2011 1:50:48 AM

Heck, it's cold shutdown because we think it would be better all around if it were. So, it is.
by RadioGuy 7/19/2011 1:51:17 AM

@RadioGuy LOL!
by LM 7/19/2011 1:51:41 AM

It's becoming their go-to strategy.
by RadioGuy 7/19/2011 1:51:48 AM

Just change the metrics. There. No more problem.
by RadioGuy 7/19/2011 1:52:31 AM

Just like the NRC, redefine what is safe rather making things safe.
by Ralph Unger 7/19/2011 1:52:32 AM

QuakeAlert
DATE : 07/19/2011 03:38:51
TIME : 15 minutes ago
REG. : near the east coast of Honshu, Japan
MAG. : 5.3
DEP. : 15.8 km
ID : 123416
quakes.globalincidentmap.com
by Edano 7/19/2011 1:55:05 AM

@RadioGuy That's it! "Kobayashi Maru strategy" love it!
by smoss 7/19/2011 1:56:08 AM

@LM, see that is what I thought of with stabilized. That is, the reactor is colder than 100 degrees centigrade as long as we keep pouring water into it. With plenty goodwill, you might suggest that this situation is stabilized for the time being. But you still could not claim that the situation is stable. In fact things could change at a drop of a hat. So much for letting people return home.
by Peter Melzer 7/19/2011 1:56:38 AM

Tepco doesn't like to lose...
by Ralph Unger 7/19/2011 1:57:00 AM

@Peter I agree...but just the other day the rate in the pumps for 1 & 2 dropped enough to raise temps. That's definitely not stable in my book. I just want to know the temp of SFP 4 because it looks way too hot for my taste and as far as I know they haven't been able to rig the circulation yet. It's a ticking time bomb. The others aren't much better.
by LM 7/19/2011 2:01:15 AM

by Edano via Jma.go.jp 7/19/2011 2:05:02 AM

The cold shutdown definition I posted was from WIKI, here is the revised (May 27,2011) NRC definition.. "The term used to define a reactor coolant system at atmospheric pressure and at a temperature below 200 degrees Fahrenheit following a reactor cooldown." Interesting....
by Ralph Unger 7/19/2011 2:05:15 AM

by Edano via Jma.go.jp 7/19/2011 2:07:17 AM

The near simultaneous (geologically) 4.7 in the ever-popular Rat Islands is interesting.
by RadioGuy 7/19/2011 2:11:43 AM

Busy up there.
by RadioGuy 7/19/2011 2:12:14 AM

I wonder how the rats survive the winters up there?
by Ralph Unger 7/19/2011 2:13:03 AM

Since we are discussing cooling the reactors, Is recently stumbled upon this notable conclusion in a scientific article posted here last week: “Due to the large volume of the consolidated core and lower plenum materials and low thermal diﬀusivity of the ceramic crust, the inner region of the consolidated mass could be prevented from cooling, as discussed concerning the degraded core of TMI-2.4) Furthermore, the large size of the consolidated mass could also prevent injected water ﬂow. These could be causes of some diﬃculty in the medium- and long-term cooling of the degraded core of the 1F1 reactor.”

Fumiya Tanabe (2011) Analysis of Core Melt Accident in Fukushima Daiichi-Unit 1 Nuclear Reactor. Journal of Nuclear Science and Technology, Vol. 48:1135-1139. www.jstage.jst.go.jp
by Peter Melzer 7/19/2011 2:15:49 AM

@Ralph Unger they wear fur coats. :-)
by lillymunster 7/19/2011 2:17:20 AM

I am trying to figure out what a rat would look like with 3 inch long fur. A tribble?
by Ralph Unger 7/19/2011 2:18:27 AM

@Peter Thanks for the re-post. I wonder if that could be a contributing factor to the flow problems at 1?
by LM 7/19/2011 2:21:49 AM

@Ralph Unger or double coated like an arctic breed dog, fluffy rats.

@LM there has to be some of that going on unless something caused it to break apart.
by lillymunster 7/19/2011 2:23:25 AM

@Lilly I agree. It would definitely explain the flow issues. I just love to hear their explanations for things. They should be careful not to exclaim "mission accomplished". We know how that story ends!
by LM 7/19/2011 2:27:41 AM

Several very large objects fell during reactor#3 explosion. I still find it hard to believe that that was only wall panels and building debris. I just looked through my screen captures for each second, and at leat 3 massive objects fell.
by Cat 7/19/2011 2:30:53 AM

When we used to get thermal images, wasn't that turbine roof one of the hot spots?
by Cat 7/19/2011 2:32:24 AM

@Cat hmm let me go look
by lillymunster 7/19/2011 2:32:44 AM

In think it is just a CYA , the roof covering, because they think more "hot" water will end up in the sea. China and Korea are not pleased.
by Ralph Unger 7/19/2011 2:34:31 AM