Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2078

Get with the program Majj! We just change the limits and that makes it all safe!
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 11:42:40 AM

www.nrel.gov @all.. lessons learned from BIOMASS POWER PLANTS
by dean 8/4/2011 11:44:48 AM

@Ralph Unger I wish I can do this in my bank account. Just rise it :-)
by Majj 8/4/2011 11:45:15 AM

Those who set the limits before this disaster were idiots! Not the informed scientists that they pretended to be. 100 mSv vs 250 mSv. Those guys who made the limits are idiots, that is why the government trusted them to set the limits.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 11:45:55 AM

gm Ralph.. I remember that question from the RAD WORKER training.. which is worse and ACUTE does in a short time or a CHRONIC dose over a long period
by dean 8/4/2011 11:46:03 AM

I asked that on Reuters and I got a definitive answer.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 11:46:47 AM

Short time will kill quick. Long time will kill slow.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 11:47:26 AM

1 Sv can kill, so 250 mSv is 25% of that dose. It will not kill instantly. It is a commitment to cancer.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 11:49:03 AM

there you go Ralph
by dean 8/4/2011 11:49:55 AM

Doh? Even my buddies who get cancer treatments have to acknowledge that.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 11:50:02 AM

I beat one cancer, but I also have asked for a few more.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 11:50:51 AM

up early today.. I have to zip to a work meeting.. willl return.. GOOD seeing you Ralph and majj
by dean 8/4/2011 11:51:08 AM

Have a good one Dean.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 11:51:30 AM

@Ralph Unger 250mSv is still half of the limit in other countries around the world including the USA.
by Pedro Jesus 8/4/2011 11:51:53 AM

Over 10 years not one day.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 11:52:26 AM

10,000 mSv at some pipe, and they say the workers who discovered that got 5 mSv? BS alert!!!
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 11:53:45 AM

That would mean that they saw the trouble and ran away before they saw the trouble. Unless they are Gods.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 11:55:09 AM

100 mSv ia the international limit Pedro.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 11:56:23 AM

Japan’s Fukushima catastrophe brings big radiation spikes to B.C. “The quantities of radioactive materials reaching Canada as a result of the Japanese nuclear incident are very small and do not pose any health risk to Canadians,” Health Canada says on its website. “The very slight increases in radiation across the country have been smaller than the normal day-to-day fluctuations from background radiation.”

In fact, Health Canada’s own data shows this isn’t true. The iodine-131 level in the air in Sidney peaked at 3.6 millibecquerels per cubic metre on March 20. That’s more than 300 times higher than the background level, which is 0.01 or fewer millibecquerels per cubic metre. www.straight.com
by Majj 8/4/2011 12:02:38 PM

I am sure that radioactive particles will not hurt me because this is a nuclear emergency.What would just cause me to die a few months ago now will just make my skin be clearer.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 12:03:15 PM

Actually 50 mSv is the normal limit, and that is for nuclear workers, but now many times that is OK for normal people who live in an environment that used to be considered dangerous. Do not change the dangers, just change the limits. In the US we call that pencil whipping, to change the results to meet what we want to see.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 12:17:20 PM

In the US we can either admit that BPA leads to girls hitting puberty at 8 years instead of 12 years because the chemical imitates female hormones, or we can dismiss the whole problem because it is too big to address. And the effect of all the growth hormones in our meat? Nope, to big to address.
by Ralph Unger 8/4/2011 12:22:32 PM

Morning all! (afternoon-evening)
by lillymunster 8/4/2011 12:55:22 PM

morning
by dean 8/4/2011 12:59:23 PM

Just reading back through the early morning posts. :-)
by lillymunster 8/4/2011 1:02:55 PM

Dean have you heard anything or have any idea what is going on with the NRC. They seem to be having some sort of infighting over the proposed changes
by lillymunster 8/4/2011 1:06:11 PM

FROM Rockhoppers tweets translating the workers tweets
The Fukushima worker's tweets: R1's water recycling coolant system is almost done. Many workers got lots of exposure from this work. ...(cont) "I got 10mSv from this work only. My group has only 10mSv up to the limit for this year (until end of March 2012) . So probably, cont) "the place we can work will be R4... No R1 any more. BTW, 'the 2nd floor' where 5Sv was detected should be air-conditioning room,(cont) "not reactor bldg. The AC room is connected to the ventilation stack. TEPCO should have counters to detect higher radiation! (cont) "So far, no one can walk into the 2nd and 4th floors of R1 bldg. I don't know radiation levels there."(cont) "My concern is the water cleaning procedure. TEPCO/Govt say that cleaning process will be done in the next 6 months. But, if so...cont) "what will happen to the radiation levels in the basement of the bldgs. The 120,000 tons water actually works as a shield currently. (cont) "Rad level is 2Sv/h at the surface of the water in the basement, the half value thickness is 19cm, and water level is 4-5m...cont) "Rad level will be really high without the water. I guess that the melt-through fuel is at the pedestal underground (? as he wrote), (cont) "but I'm not sure how much of the fuel is there... Someone have to see and check them eventually. Before making the basement empty, cont) "turbine basement and reactor basement should be completely shielded. Otherwise, we can't take the water out. Just my concern."
by elainekirk 8/4/2011 1:12:02 PM

Hadn't thought of that, the basement water would give some shielding. How the heck could anyone get in the building if the water is pumped out. I think now we know why they have been so urgent to get that tent up. Someone knew more about #1. But why it is so highly radioactive in so many places?
by lillymunster 8/4/2011 1:16:37 PM

@all Radiation limit confusion.. In the US and ICRP recomendation, exposure to the public from NPP limit is 100 mRem/year= 1 mSievert /year. Normal nuke worker exposure limit 5 Rem/year = 50 milliSievert/year. Emergency exposure limits, designed for short term, to save a life or facility by US and ICRP up to 250 to 500 millisievert/year. These are supposed to be shorter time frame, while emergency exists. Blood changes can not be seen until the body recieved about 250 millisievert, relatively short term. Until 250 millisievert, doctors can't determine if an exposure occured at all (without dosimetry). 1 Sievert can be medically determined in a person, but won't kill them right away. Generally 4 Sievert (short term) (400 Rem) is considered Lethal to 50% of people without excellent immediate medical attention.
by RBeaner 8/4/2011 1:16:50 PM

@Ralph Unger Radiation level decreases very rapidly with distance from the source. If it is a small physical spot, rad levels will quarter for every doubling of distance. example: 10,000 mSv on contact (<1 inch of pipe), can be 2500 mSv/hr at 2 inches, 625 mSv at 4 inches, 156 at 8 inches down to 40 mSv at 16 inches. That Hi rad looks like it is at a pipe elbow, so physically small and therefore will follow this Point Source formulae. (Dose Rate 1)x(Distance1)^2 = (dose Rate 2) x (distance 2)^2
by RBeaner 8/4/2011 1:26:09 PM

@lillymunster As far as Iv'e seen, Tepco roadmaps have not indicated actual removal of water from basements. True that the water provides a lot of shielding. Tepco so far is only looking at controling the level of water in lower levels, not actually dewatering them. I assume at this point that the basement of reactor 1 has some coriin it. Prehaps semi solid cooled by lots of surrounding water.
by RBeaner 8/4/2011 1:30:34 PM

@RBeaner There is a big fissure that runs up to the base of unit 1 I have to worry that there may be structural breaking inside. Not sure if the containment could handle that, it is pretty thick reinforced concrete but the basement concrete could be cracked open. If something leaves containment it could go anywhere. The oddity with the water, it is leaking out of the buildings adding to the leaking rad water problem. But it sounds like they need to leave water in the building thus will not solve the leaking rad water program. So if it is this radioactive in the building now how long will they have to wait to play fetch the corium?
by lillymunster 8/4/2011 1:40:30 PM

@all I have a copy of the smart phone radiation detector schematic. If anyone wants it let me know.
by lillymunster 8/4/2011 1:50:53 PM

@lillymunster fetch the corium will probably take 15 to 20 years, at least. Rad water will (and has) seep into the ground, but it moves very slowly. The eventual wall should prevent actual leakage from the site. When stuff leaks from containment, it can't go "anywhere", just downhill or the slope of the water table which is towards the ocean. None of this is good, but it is what it is and things probably won't get any worse at the plant. They seem to have a reasonable handle on the situatipn. I am much more concerned with stupidity of spreading contamination with manure, compost, sewer sludge and now the insane idea of biomass power generation from burning wood and trees that are undoubtably contaminated to some unknown extent.
by RBeaner 8/4/2011 1:50:56 PM

@lillymunster what is the smart phone thingy Lilly cann I turn my phone into a counter?
by elainekirk 8/4/2011 1:56:19 PM

Evacuation orders to be lifted in late August
The government says it wants to lift evacuation advisories in a few weeks for areas 20 to 30 kilometers from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.
A recovery timetable released on Wednesday proposes lifting the evacuation notice later this month or early next since the situation at the plant has improved. www3.nhk.or.jp
by Majj 8/4/2011 1:58:49 PM

@RBeaner they need to drain to assess damage , they have said #2's suppresion is holed or is that above water? I know they want to drain #1 to find what damage there is
by elainekirk 8/4/2011 1:59:01 PM

@Majj is the diet the name of a funny farm? I had understood it to be the seat of government
by elainekirk 8/4/2011 2:00:21 PM

but before they wanted to flood the ractors ?!?!
by Edano 8/4/2011 2:05:22 PM

i have never thought they wanted to drain the reactors, i thought only the trenches ?!?
by Edano 8/4/2011 2:06:29 PM

3 top Japanese nuclear officials to be axed amid crisis

TOKYO, Aug. 4, Kyodo

Industry minister Banri Kaieda said Thursday he plans to sack three top officials in charge of nuclear power policy to hold them responsible for the handling of the ongoing crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The three officials are Kazuo Matsunaga, vice minister for economy, trade and industry, Nobuaki Terasaka, head of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, and Tetsuhiro Hosono, head of the Agency for Natural Resources and Energy.

Kaieda said he will reveal details later. The minister, who has expressed his intent to resign to take responsibility for confusion over the stalled restart of nuclear reactors, did not specify when he will do so and only said, ''I will decide on my own.'' english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano 8/4/2011 2:07:29 PM

@Edano but the reactors fill the trenches.
by lillymunster 8/4/2011 2:08:05 PM

@lillymunster but they cannot remove the water from the hot corium.
by Edano 8/4/2011 2:08:59 PM

@elainekirk One of their plans involved putting grout or concrete into the torus or torus room to seal leaks. You can pour concrete under water but you have to get a concrete pump hose or pipe to the location to do it.
by lillymunster 8/4/2011 2:10:08 PM