Japan Earthquake | Page 2384

  • @Peter i agree, because the second shows the torus explosion.
    by Edano 9/21/2011 9:33:17 PM

  • Sort of stupid question. Did all 3 explosions happen after watering was resumed?
    by lillymunster 9/21/2011 9:35:07 PM

  • @lillymunster on #2 and 3 yes (seawater injection), on #1 no.
    by Edano 9/21/2011 9:36:06 PM

  • in #1 the explosion was at 15:36, the seawater injection started 20:20. both on march 12.
    by Edano 9/21/2011 9:37:23 PM

  • More anti-radiation cesium antidotes: www.radiationdetoxification.com
    Beets – Beets have been shown to rebuild hemoglobin of the blood after exposure to radiation. Rats fed a diet of 20 percent beet pulp were able to prevent cesium-137 absorption and 97 to 100 percent more effectively than rats given no beets.
    by artnuke 9/21/2011 9:37:56 PM

  • @artnuke
    " * In April 1994, a commemoration text from the Ukrainian embassy in Belgium counted 25,000 dead among the liquidators since 1986.
    * According to Georgy Lepnin, a Belarusian physician who worked on reactor #4, "approximately 100,000 liquidators are now dead", of a total number of one million workers.[citation needed]
    * According to Vyacheslav Grishin of the Chernobyl Union, the main organization of liquidators, "25,000 of the Russian liquidators are dead and 70,000 disabled, about the same in Ukraine, and 10,000 dead in Belarus and 25,000 disabled", which makes a total of 60,000 dead (10% of the 600 000, liquidators) and 165,000 disabled.[4]
    * A UNSCEAR report places the total confirmed deaths from radiation at 64 as of 2008.
    * Estimates of the number of deaths potentially resulting from the accident vary enormously: the World Health Organization (WHO) suggest it could reach 4,000:

    A total of up to 4000 people could eventually die of radiation exposure from the Chernobyl nuclear power plant (NPP) accident nearly 20 years ago, an international team of more than 100 scientists has concluded.

    As of mid-2005, however, fewer than 50 deaths had been directly attributed to radiation from the disaster, almost all being highly exposed rescue workers, many who died within months of the accident but others who died as late as 2004. [WHO-IAEA agreement] " en.wikipedia.org
    by Edano 9/21/2011 9:43:07 PM

  • in some 10 years they will tell us that nuclear bombs are completely harmless, as long as you keep smiling.
    by Edano 9/21/2011 9:44:51 PM

  • "AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY AND THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION WHA_12_40" www.independentwho.info
    by Edano 9/21/2011 9:49:00 PM

  • @Edano and that the three headed fish are of the nesting variety and therefore need defunkt nuke subs to be sunk in many locations to enable them to breed and produce the three headed multilimbed amphibious young that will enrich the planet
    by elainekirk 9/21/2011 9:49:18 PM

  • @Edano In reading this containment/corium document Dean found yesterday it talks about watering can cause undesired effects. Energetic reactions, more hydrogen build up, more pressure in containment etc. Unit 1 had smaller containment so that might have made some difference in build up.
    by lillymunster 9/21/2011 9:50:28 PM

  • TEPCO burdened with task of treating contaminated water at damaged nuclear plant
    The government is pouring effort into bringing the temperature at Unit 2 of the Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant under 100 degrees Celsius to prevent the release of radioactive materials through steam, but workers are also faced with the task of dealing with huge amounts of contaminated water.

    The process of bringing the temperature in the reactor core under 100 degrees Celsius is known as a "cold shutdown." However, this normally applies to a properly functioning reactor, and experts are split over whether it is applicable at the Fukushima No. 1 complex, where meltdowns have occurred.
    mdn.mainichi.jp
    by elainekirk 9/21/2011 9:51:23 PM

  • @lillymunster yes, possible.
    by Edano 9/21/2011 9:51:29 PM

  • @elainekirk i think the 3 headed fish are sterile. most of those mutations are.
    by Edano 9/21/2011 9:52:34 PM

  • @Edano You mean it's not a new breeding population? The nukes are responsible??
    by RadioGuy 9/21/2011 9:53:18 PM

  • @RadioGuy So no sea mine turkeys? :-(
    by lillymunster 9/21/2011 9:54:25 PM

  • (I'm still kinda stuck on the Japanese canning up all that Fukushima and Miyagi seafood to send to third world countries to prove the food is safe.)
    by RadioGuy 9/21/2011 9:54:37 PM

  • @lillymunster heh.....gobblegobblebonkBOOM.
    by RadioGuy 9/21/2011 9:54:59 PM

  • @lillymunster Are you wondering if that 1999 study @ElaineKirk posted (which the IAEA recently uploaded) is a clue to #3 possible prompt criticality? I sure am. If I understand the paper correctly, it posits a criticality caused by the control rods melting before the fuel rods get mis-shapen, and getting sprayed with unboronated water. The water acts as facillitator to recriticality. That causes containment failure within 1.3h. after criticality. Is this possible at #3?
    www.iaea.org
    by M.I.A. edited by elainekirk 9/21/2011 9:55:24 PM

  • @RadioGuy I almost spewed coffee on my laptop
    by lillymunster 9/21/2011 10:07:35 PM

  • TEPCO releases new images of Fukushima plant

    Tokyo Electric Power Company, or TEPCO, has released new video footage of its Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

    The video footage is 3 minutes and 40 seconds long and consists of various clips taken between late June and mid-September.

    Footage shot at the No. 1 reactor showed work to cover the reactor building to reduce the release of radioactive substances. A panel of 20 square meters was being lifted with a crane. TEPCO says 8 of the 18 panels needed to cover the entire building had been installed as of Tuesday.

    Footage taken at the No. 3 reactor showed workers manually adjusting the volume of water to be injected in order to cool the reactor. Earlier this month, TEPCO began boosting water injection to lower the temperature of the reactor to below 100 degrees Celsius.

    The video also showed workers learning how to use dosimeters and how to put on full face masks at a training session.

    The company said it is becoming more important to train workers as operations to bring the plant under control proceed. It added that it hopes the images will convey the atmosphere at the site.

    Wednesday, September 21, 2011 23:57 +0900 (JST)
    www3.nhk.or.jp
    by Edano 9/21/2011 10:09:05 PM

  • Since tepco is not planning to fill the RPV of unit 3 with water according to the diagram of Fig. V-2-1, the company seems to assume that there is no left to cool and shield in it.
    by Peter 9/21/2011 10:09:05 PM

  • From the anals of the IAEA.

    Construction of Radiation-Induced Mutant Libraries and Function Analysis of Mutated Genes in Crop Plants
    tc.iaea.org
    by elainekirk 9/21/2011 10:09:27 PM

  • @M.I.A. I have not looked at those documents yet, still trying to finish up this one. pbadupws.nrc.gov
    Excellent discussion of containment issues, scenarios and corium behaviors. I do find it interesting that after various media outlets talk of recriticality and post evidence of such now the official agencies are suddenly releasing these documents.
    by lillymunster 9/21/2011 10:09:36 PM

  • Spiegel Online sneaks into J Village www.spiegel.de
    by lillymunster 9/21/2011 10:17:15 PM


  • www.livescience.com
    How Does Nuclear Radiation Harm the Body?
    Rachael Rettner, MyHealthNewsDaily Staff Writer
    Date: 15 March 2011 Radioactive cesium, on the other hand, can stay in the environment for more than a century. But it does not concentrate in one part of the body the way radioactive iodine does.
    The Chernobyl accident released a plume of radioactive materials into the atmosphere in a fraction of a second. Children were exposed to radioactive material mainly from eating contaminated leafy vegetables and dairy. There have been no detectable health effects from exposure to radioactive cesium after the accident. No increases in cancer rates were observed after the release of radioactive from a power plant on Three Mile Island, Pa., in 1979, Zablotska said.
    by artnuke 9/21/2011 10:35:04 PM

  • To emphasize: There have been no detectable health effects from exposure to radioactive cesium after the accident. www.livescience.com If this is the case why all the panic over cesium???? This appears to be the ONLY mention I could find that there are NO DOCUMENTED HEALTH CONSEQUENCES FOR CESIUM AT CHERNOBYL. Isn't this worth publicizing??
    by artnuke 9/21/2011 10:37:35 PM

  • @artnuke i tried to give you some background about studies of chernobyl and cited many links, but you did not respond. somehow i get the impression that you are not interested in a critical dialogue.
    by Edano 9/21/2011 10:40:34 PM

  • @Edano Per your earlier theory of unit 3's RPV being dislodged during the explosion. I found this mention in the document and it made me think of that theory.

    generation of pressures and shock waves
    that can fail vessel support structures,
    leading to movement of the vessel and
    failure of containment piping
    penetrations,
    by lillymunster 9/21/2011 10:45:21 PM

  • "Health risk of radioactive caesium"
    Caesium-137 reacts with water producing a water-soluble compound (caesium hydroxide), and the biological behavior of caesium is similar to that of potassium and rubidium. After entering the body, caesium gets more or less uniformly distributed throughout the body, with higher concentration in muscle tissues and lower in bones. The biological half-life of caesium is rather short at about 70 days.[8] Experiments with dogs showed that a single dose of 3800 μCi/kg (140 MBq/kg, or approximately 44 μg/kg) is lethal within three weeks.[9]

    Accidental ingestion of caesium-137 can be treated with Prussian blue, which binds to it chemically and then speeds its expulsion from the body.[10]

    The improper handling of caesium-137 gamma ray sources can lead to release of this radio-isotope and radiation injuries. Perhaps the best-known case is the Goiânia accident, in which an improperly-disposed-of radiation therapy system from an abandoned clinic in the city of Goiânia, Brazil, was scavenged from a junkyard, and the glowing caesium salt sold to curious, uneducated buyers. This led to multiple deaths and serious injuries from radiation exposure." en.wikipedia.org
    by Edano 9/21/2011 10:46:17 PM

  • Just for the record, I was snooping around for Chernobyl radiation victims with ARS and found this report of note with the title "Bone Marrow Transplantation after the Chernobyl Nuclear Accident" published in the New England Journal many years ago: www.nejm.org . Unfortunately, you need a subscription. Below is the abstract:
    On April 26, 1986, an accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power station in the Soviet Union exposed about 200 people to large doses of total-body radiation. Thirteen persons exposed to estimated total-body doses of 5.6 to 13.4 Gy received bone marrow transplants.
    Two transplant recipients, who received estimated doses of radiation of 5.6 and 8.7 Gy, are alive more than three years after the accident. The others died of various causes, including burns (the cause of death in five), interstitial pneumonitis (three), graft-versus-host disease (two), and acute renal failure and adult respiratory distress syndrome (one). There was hematopoietic (granulocytic) recovery in nine transplant recipients who could be evaluated, six of whom had transient partial engraftment before the recovery of their own marrow. Graft-versus-host disease was diagnosed clinically in four persons and suspected in two others.
    Although the recovery of endogenous hematopoiesis may occur after exposure to radiation doses of 5.6 to 13.4 Gy, we do not know whether it is more likely after the transient engraftment of transplanted stem cells. Because large doses of radiation affect multiple systems, bone marrow recovery does not necessarily ensure survival. Furthermore, the risk of graft-versus-host disease must be considered when the benefits of this treatment are being weighed. (N Engl J Med 1989; 321:205–12.)
    We are indebted to the Soviet physicians, nurses, and military personnel who helped in the evaluation, transportation, and medical care of the patients; to Drs. Andrei Vorobiev, Leonid Ilyan, Richard O'Reilly, and many others; to Drs. John Hansen and John Goldman, who coordinated the search for unrelated donors; to Sharon Wells-Dazo, Kirsten Laage, and Bonnie Tumminia of the Occidental Petroleum Corporation, Linda Rodman and Shaun Capurro of the University of California at Los Angeles, Nina Vlasova, and Tamar Gale, who worked tirelessly to provide communication links; to Drs. Victor Voskresinskiy, Ivan Nikitin, and Nikolai Fetisov and Vice-Minister Oleg Sheppin of the Soviet Ministry of Health; to Dr. Eugeny Chazov, who allowed us access to equipment and supplies from the Soviet National Heart Institute; to Dr. Mortimer Bortin, the Advisory Committee, and the collaborating institutions of the International Bone Marrow Transplant Registry, who made their resources available; to Richard Jacobs of the Occidental Petroleum Corporation, who had a critical organizational role; to Dr. Howard Shulman, who along with Soviet pathologists, reviewed the histologic material; to Baxter Healthcare, Coulter Electronics, Sandoz Pharmaceuticals, Diagnostic Products Corporation, and Smith-Kline Beckman for generous gifts; to Drs. Drew Winston and Winston Ho, who provided assistance, antibiotics, and good advice; to President Mikhail Gorbachev for inviting the International Bone Marrow Transplant Registry to participate in the medical response to the Chernobyl accident; and to Dr. Armand Hammer, without whose generous support none of this would have been possible. Dr. Evgeny Piatkin died on December 23, 1987; we dedicate this article to him and to the brave persons who lost their lives trying to control the Chernobyl accident.
    by Peter 9/21/2011 10:46:35 PM

  • Gruesome prospects for those receiving doses greater than 5 Sv, :(.
    by Peter 9/21/2011 10:48:08 PM

  • @lillymunster yes, i have seen that this relocation theory finds some support recently. i always think of the lightbulb with its high pressure as a rocket ramp for the rpv. and if the explosion was initiated in the drywell, it would have very likely destroyed the caps.
    by Edano 9/21/2011 10:50:06 PM

  • @Edano , I remember this accident. My old boss consulted there. The children had smeared their bodies with the stuff because it had nice iridescent glow, :(.
    by Peter 9/21/2011 10:50:45 PM

  • @Edano I am also finding mentions of the concrete pedestal in the BWR being prone to damage in explosive events. I think we have lots of various theories and questions coming together with some of the documents being found and coming out.
    by lillymunster 9/21/2011 10:51:10 PM

  • @lillymunster the support skirt, yes. it can also be destroyed by the molten corium.
    by Edano 9/21/2011 10:52:33 PM

  • the #3 rpv might not be anymore where they expect it to be....
    by Edano 9/21/2011 10:53:24 PM

  • @Peter horrible thinking of that ...... :(
    by Edano 9/21/2011 10:54:27 PM

  • @artnuke More: 3.How have researchers learned about cancer risks from nuclear power plant accidents?

    Much of what is known about cancer caused by radiation exposures from nuclear power plant accidents comes from research on the April 1986 nuclear power plant disaster at Chernobyl, in what is now Ukraine. The radioactive isotopes released during the Chernobyl accident included I-131, Cs-137, and Sr-90.

    Approximately 600 workers at the power plant during the emergency received very high doses of radiation and suffered from radiation sickness. All of those who received more than 6 grays (Gy) of radiation became very sick right away and subsequently died. Those who received less than 4 Gy had a better chance of survival. (A Gy is a measure of the amount of radiation absorbed by a person’s body.)

    Hundreds of thousands of people who worked as part of the cleanup crews in the years after the accident were exposed to lower external doses of ionizing radiation, ranging from approximately 0.14 Gy in 1986 to 0.04 Gy in 1989. In this group of people, there was an increased risk of leukemia.

    Approximately 6.5 million residents of the contaminated areas surrounding Chernobyl received much lower amounts of radiation. From 1986 through 2005, these people received an accumulated average dose of 0.0092 Gy from external and internal sources of radiation. Children and adolescents exposed to I-131 showed an increased risk of developing thyroid cancer. (from the National Cancer Institute at the National Institutes of Health) www.cancer.gov
    by M.I.A. 9/21/2011 10:56:37 PM

  • @lillymunster i remember the rpv was equipped with elastic shock absorbers on its upper parts. if those got damaged during quake or due to temps or the explosion, the rpv head is not properly connected anymore to the containment.
    by Edano 9/21/2011 10:58:14 PM

  • Troy Davis is dying right now .... what a shame ! :( :( :(
    by Edano 9/21/2011 11:02:45 PM

  • @Edano there were shock absorber type units put on the bottom of the RPV in BWR units. I think Fuku had them.
    by lillymunster 9/21/2011 11:06:32 PM

  • @lillymunster now tell me if they were designed to withstand a 9.0 quake, corebreach and explosion.
    by Edano 9/21/2011 11:08:31 PM

  • @Edano , as to the rpvs, I already had this vision that the corium heat would corrode the skirt, embrittle the whole support structure, and the whole thing would crash down, perhaps it just takes another little shake to make that happen.
    by Peter 9/21/2011 11:10:11 PM

  • @Peter it's a question of time and cooling.
    by Edano 9/21/2011 11:12:00 PM

  • Here's my top 10 cesium facts. The first one is the surprising doozy. For something that produces so much radiation and pollutes so much land and agricultural and sewage products, it doesn't actually seem to hurt anybody unless it's an awful lot of it in one place.
    tinyurl.com

    Top 10 ten facts about cesium-1371.There have been NO detectable health effects from exposure to radioactive cesium after the Chernobyl, Fukushima or Three Mile Island nuclear accidents
    2.Radioactive cesium-137 is the one of the two main pollutants besides Iodine-131 released by a nuclear power plant meltdown that contaiminated large areas
    3.Cesium contaiminated land, milk, animals, fish and vegetables in hazardous amounts, and globally in detectable amounts at Fukushima and Chernobyl and is responsible for most of the radioactive contamination measured on the land and air.
    4.Cesium-137 is potentially much more hazardous than iodine-131 because it can sicken or kill because it not just a beta but also a gamma emitter which can cannot be blocked by foil or skin without massive shielding. Iodine is a beta emitter but if inhaled can cause a curable cancer when absorbed by the thyroid,
    5.The Goiânia accident led to deaths and serious injuries from radiation exposure from scavenged materials.
    6.Cesium intake by breathing, drinking or eating cannot be blocked by pills, it is absorbed throughout the body, and it is excreted in urine and mothers milk. Iodine can be blocked by taking tablets,
    7.Unlike Iodine which has a half-life in days, Cesium-137 is about 40 years which means it can take centuries to reach a vanishing level.
    8.Caesium in humans normally has a biological half-life of between one and four months
    9.A dose of 140 MBq/kg (44 μg/kg) is lethal to a dog in weeks.
    10.Just one gram of caesium-137 has an activity of 3.215 terabecquerel
    by artnuke 9/21/2011 11:14:15 PM

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