Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2929

@dean it vents off of the turbine generator so the water isn't directly out of the reactor core, it is the other side of the 2 loops. Joieau mentioned that if the steam generator has small leaks tritium etc can cross that barrier between the two loops.

According to most of the news reports it sounded like they were still venting the turbine side throughout the day. Is that normal? I thought they would only need to do it for a bit right after the shutdown
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 1:36:31 PM

added the tritium info and the PWR cooling loop illustration to today's Byron update
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 1:39:40 PM

@lilly.. the spokes lady for Bryon indicated that the tritium can leach through the tubing and get into the secondary loop which is where the venting is being done to remove the heat. Like using the atmosphere for the heat sink. Also the exchange of water can occur in tube leakage as you say. The venting of steam when the reactor undergoes an unplanned shutdown takes a fairly long time to safely get the reactor to a shutdown condition. They have to maintain the water level in the reactor vessel, pressure balances within the system (torus and containment and reactor vessel etc.) Venting is a slower process for removal of heat when there is a commercial outage because alot of the major huge pumps which pass water through the system are awaiting commercial power to restart.
by dean 1/31/2012 1:42:13 PM

I liken it to limping to a cold shutdown condition with a violent release of steam
by dean 1/31/2012 1:43:52 PM

Gov't, TEPCO heading for showdown over electricity rate hike mdn.mainichi.jp
Evacuees allowed to reclaim pets during 3rd no-go zone visit, but none found mdn.mainichi.jp
Plebicites first step in pulling nuclear plug www.japantimes.co.jp
METI to cap personnel costs to be reflected in utility bills mdn.mainichi.jp
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 1:45:58 PM

@dean It sounds like it is more complicated than maybe it is stated to the press to bring everything down. Byron is running on a power uprate and with experimental "high burnup" cladding on their fuel rods. I don't know if either factor complicates but those were the two things Elaine and I found last night.
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 1:48:28 PM

the increased power just means that it takes longer because of the decay heat being slightly higher @ lilly, loss of offsite power is a major deal to stabilize in a huge BWR plant. Not only in the reactor but also the SFPool and many balance of plant systems. Pressures, temps, levels, chemistry controls, control of power levels etc.
by dean 1/31/2012 1:50:57 PM

Byron has had a long string of offsite power losses due to oddites in the switchyard. You would think they would be motivated to fix the issue to avoid that kind of shutdown plus loss of income while the unit is down.
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 1:53:10 PM

NEI Asks NRC for Phased US Industry Response to Fukushima Lessons safetyfirst.nei.org

Now begins the US nuclear industries attempts to weasel out of the mandated safety updates from Fukushima....

In the first paragraph:
The Nuclear Energy Institute is urging the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) to take into account the considerable resources required to comply with proposed information requests and orders to implement recommendations

All about the money.
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 1:54:02 PM

@lilly.. those problems at switching stations feed back into the delicate relays on the plant main generator systems and can cause trips to protect the steam turbines and generator from damage which is a huge expense. Also as has been seen in the past, sometimes those trip interlocks can have problems as well. both conditions cause the power to go off line feeding the grid from the NPR. The result is what we've seen at Bryon, placing the plant in an upset condition (more major that a normal shutdown)
by dean 1/31/2012 1:56:21 PM

@lillymunster interesting fact last night I saw on nrc that many of these plants only have 2.1billion insurance through whichever scheme it is ..surely 2.1 isnt going to cover much
by elainekirk 1/31/2012 1:57:37 PM

@dean byron had increased it's output above permitted
by elainekirk 1/31/2012 1:58:19 PM

@elaine, hi elaine
by dean 1/31/2012 1:58:27 PM

@dean hi dean just onj way out but shouldnt be long
by elainekirk 1/31/2012 1:58:52 PM

@elaine, this is what I don't like.. using the plant for prototype testing...
by dean 1/31/2012 1:59:09 PM

the industry needs to build a test reactor to do the prototype testing
by dean 1/31/2012 1:59:32 PM

@elaine.. be safe..
by dean 1/31/2012 1:59:43 PM

@dean N. Anna had a situation where the trips and power fluctuations damaged an emergency generator.

So your thinking it is closer to the reactor electricals than just out in the switch yard? That would explain the total loss if it was past the point where the 3 lines feed into 1.
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 1:59:44 PM

@dean I assumed there was a test reactor of a newish design at Idaho. GE supposedly had/has a test reactor of one of their designs somewhere in the rust-belt states from what I read. I assumed they DID test some of this stuff before trying it out on a commercial reactor.
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 2:01:21 PM

@lilly... yes.. the fault at the switchyard which could be miles and miles away feeds back up the line into the protective relays at the plant and can cause a faulted condition which tells the turbine and generator to shut down.. thus tripping the breakers and putting the plant to an upset condition which, needs immediate actions to deal with the excess heat being generated by the reactor.
by dean 1/31/2012 2:01:47 PM

@lilly, I'm not sure of a commercial test reactor, some testing may have been done at test reactors perhaps in canada or overseas. another good study.. "how and where do they test new commercial fuel systems prior to running in the reactors?"
by dean 1/31/2012 2:03:29 PM

@lilly.. I need to go to a doc appointment... would be nice today to try and search out a procedure for a bwr plant on recovery from a loss off offsite power.. so we can break it down... be back later ..
by dean edited by lillymunster 1/31/2012 2:04:11 PM

@dean is there a way around this issue or is it a problem no matter how you wire a system? I would assume more isolation of each incoming line would improve the odds of it not happening. But if it is sending a signal on down the line going into the plant I don't know enough about industrial electrical systems to know if there is a way to stop something like that before it sort of chain reacts down the system.
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 2:04:40 PM

@dean Byron is a PWR - is there enough of a difference or are the generic enough that any BWR data works?
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 2:05:14 PM

Same Old Excuse from Goshi Hosono for Hiding the "Worst-Case Scenario": "We Were Afraid of a Panic in Tokyo" ex-skf.blogspot.com
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 2:19:26 PM

by Ian 1/31/2012 2:27:53 PM

I'm going to translate an article on the Portuguese news about nuclear power costs in France that I haven't seen on the English channels yet.
by Pedro Jesus 1/31/2012 2:41:30 PM

@lillymunster , the North Anna units are PWRs as well. I recall it took five days to reach cold shutdown at North Anna. I suppose this will be the time it takes at Byron, too, perhaps even somewhat longer because of the different types of fuel.
by Peter 1/31/2012 2:43:59 PM

@Pedro Jesus I have not seen anything in EN abt it either
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 2:47:05 PM

@Ian I wonder what nuke 'pills' the Byron residents were given a while back?
by MaryW 1/31/2012 2:59:52 PM

"The cost of nuclear power in France will rise, says Court of Accounts

The costs of nuclear power, that makes up 74% of the total production of electric energy in France should rise 10% in the next years due to necessary investments in the older plants, the Court of Accounts reveals.

The document, consisting of 380 pages, reveals many uncertainties regarding the estimated future costs of nuclear power, particularly decommissioning, long term waste management and the increment of the 58 French reactor's life span.

This study, made public this Tuesday [today] had been ordered by the French Government on May 2011 after March Fukushima-Daiichi NPP nuclear catastrophy in Japan.

The costs for maintenance have been estimated at 55bn euros between 2011 and 2025.

[...]

The Nuclear Energy Comission has released another study that estimates that the total cost of abandoning nuclear power would be 530-772 bn euros, i.e., three times more that required to keep current production."

Source: ecosfera.publico.pt
by Pedro Jesus 1/31/2012 3:03:07 PM

mention by Sunny about the piping situation: pipe flow rate is slow, and I do not stringent insulation and heating water has sunk more? "

The best insulation.　@ Gyorocyo : @ Sunnysunnynismo Yappari Do I have to wrap the ribbon heater. "
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 3:11:51 PM

@lillymunster , ribbon heaters is what we used in our old 'outhouse' to prevent the pipes from freezing. Before we had the bowl ice over on cold nights in January, ;)
by Peter 1/31/2012 3:17:58 PM

@Peter Lol. ;-) Ribbon heaters are used here for mobile homes (trailers) or old houses with pipes in the crawl space under the house unheated.
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 3:19:46 PM

battery back up for emergency data sending systems at NPPs in Japan didn't work at 3 plants during 3-11. Tokai, Onagawa and Higashidori all had their battery back up systems to send plant data to NISA fail to operate on battery power www.yomiuri.co.jp
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 3:24:45 PM

translated: Unit No. 1 and cesium together Mon 4 2012.01.31

Description translated:

Professor Takeda's blog, "Summary Unit No. 1 and cesium Mon 4" but commented that "voice" so risen, and was up. Yuan blog "Summary Unit No. 1 and four cesium Mon" → Http://Takedanet.com/2012/01/41_9283.html is.
by Ian 1/31/2012 3:26:12 PM

89% of people in temporary housing have some level of malnutrition with some being severe. Among problems cited were lack of stores near housing complexes thus people relying on convenience store food quite a bit. This is adding to health problems people already had and the stress factors of moving, radiation exposure etc www3.nhk.or.jp
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 3:27:18 PM

@lillymunster , so it's not rocket science. Cheap shots, these tepco people! They should note that there are another 20 winters or so to come.
by Peter 1/31/2012 3:38:28 PM

@Peter the workers don't seem amused. They are the ones trying to duct tape leaky pipes outside in the winter so totally understandable. I think this is part of the unhappiness with TEPCO going on the cheap at the plant.
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 3:40:04 PM

VIA NRC Email:
NEW SEISMIC MODEL WILL REFINE HAZARD ANALYSIS
AT U.S. NUCLEAR PLANTS
The Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI), the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), and the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) released a new seismic study today that will help U.S. nuclear facilities in the central and eastern United States reassess seismic hazards.
The Central and Eastern United States Seismic Source Characterization for Nuclear Facilities model and report is the culmination of a 4-year effort among the participating organizations and replaces previous seismic source models used by industry and government since the late 1980s.

more details as I find them
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 3:52:48 PM

The seismic models available here www.ceus-ssc.com
by lillymunster 1/31/2012 3:53:27 PM

6 Million Gallons Of Tritium Leaked In Braidwood Illinois, Sickened Residents Not Warned
by MaryW 1/31/2012 4:06:39 PM

Illinois' history does not look too impressive when it comes to nuke safety.
by MaryW 1/31/2012 4:14:21 PM

Furnace malfunction hobbles Aomori spent nuke fuel reprocessing plant. A furnace malfunction at a nuclear fuel reprocessing plant here has stalled a planned trial run of the facility, throwing the future of Japan's nuclear cycle policy into doubt. mdn.mainichi.jp
by Majj 1/31/2012 4:17:29 PM

Nuclear Regulatory Commission spokeswoman Viktoria Mitlyng said officials can’t yet calculate how much tritium is being released. But they know it is a safe level. Nothing to worry about. enenews.com
by MaryW 1/31/2012 4:18:16 PM