
@lillymunster playing with nukes is so new that they have no idea what the effect of these low doses will be on the genetic make up of living organisms and yet they keep on building...leaking....
by elainekirk 2/8/2012 2:33:35 AM

@elaine.. you staying up all night.. wow
by dean 2/8/2012 2:36:15 AM

@dean Hi dean, I have pictures.
by lillymunster 2/8/2012 2:36:33 AM

I looked back at them @lilly..
by dean 2/8/2012 2:37:04 AM

yes
by dean 2/8/2012 2:37:13 AM

now if we could just read the left side... for units
by dean 2/8/2012 2:37:24 AM

I wonder if it's gpm
by dean 2/8/2012 2:37:43 AM

@dean off to see if I can pull something out
by lillymunster 2/8/2012 2:37:57 AM

probably not.. if they are on metric
by dean 2/8/2012 2:38:04 AM

ty @lilly..
by dean 2/8/2012 2:38:22 AM

I have been waiting for the new readings from tepco but looks lie they are not going to release them anytime soon
by elainekirk 2/8/2012 2:40:20 AM

I expected to see the tepco cam bustling with activity
by dean 2/8/2012 2:41:18 AM

Elaine.. queen for the day for outstanding efforts above and beyond the call of duty ....
by dean 2/8/2012 2:41:48 AM

@dean I havent looked for awhile I will go looky
by elainekirk 2/8/2012 2:46:47 AM

atomicpowerreview.blogspot.com good find on cooling water flow paths.. and has a nice illustration.. @lilly.. can you copy the illustration and put in .. and we can read the article and see if our discussions today are correct..
by dean 2/8/2012 2:47:08 AM

@elaine.. good luck
by dean 2/8/2012 2:47:17 AM

@dean can't pull more detail out of the vid. The side numbers on the dial and the ones on the bottom of the bezel are too pixelated.
by lillymunster 2/8/2012 2:48:20 AM

@MaryW that would be easy to prove. Find another waterway in Vermont that isn't connected to the one Vermont Yankee sits on. Test fish there.
by lillymunster 2/8/2012 2:49:37 AM


an illustration from TEPCO indicating the cooling flow paths being used at the Fukushima Daiichi plants; it does appear now that TEPCO is using the core spray rings instead of the top spray as they had indicated before these second flow paths were added. Below, an illustration of the GE BWR3/BWR4 reactor pressure vessel and attached and internal fixtures, marked up for this update. The blue stars indicate the location of the normal feedwater flow path; feedwater is introduced through a nozzle in the pressure vessel and is supplied to a ring ("sparger") which directs the feedwater flow downward, all around the outside of the core barrel. The yellow star on the left side of this illustration shows the nozzle for connection of the core spray; that on the right shows the location of the core spray ring. This is the added flow path being used at at least one or all of the plants, as indicated in a November 30 TEPCO illustration I've just seen this morning. On the top of the illustration we see a red star by the top spray connection; TEPCO had previously indicated that this would be the second flow path, but clearly the core spray ring is more logical. It's important to note that the feedwater sparger is OUTSIDE the core barrel and that the core spray sparger is INSIDE the core barrel. This makes the core spray far more effective in directly cooling the core ... so long as the core is mostly in its original location. One of the things that this author is still wondering about is the recirc pump seals. If the recirc pump seals are failed and leaking, then this will provide a leak path out of the reactor vessel essentially at the height of the jet pump standpipes. This would make it hard to keep water level higher than roughly 2/3 of the normal core height by feedwater flow alone. There are some further developments regarding TEPCO press releases that I'm just now aware of and will update on those later on today. 8:45 AM Eastern Wednesday December 14, 2011
by dean 2/8/2012 2:49:53 AM

@lilly.. check that article ... the photo copy I put here was tiny..
by dean 2/8/2012 2:50:53 AM

always a possibility that the fuel melt would spread on the core plate assembly and spread out possibly melting through the shroud .
by dean 2/8/2012 2:55:07 AM

then the corium would have been ouside the shroud area
by dean 2/8/2012 2:55:23 AM

@dean looking at the article he makes the same conclusion we did that the core spray and the feedwater hit different areas. Something about the volume and the combination seems to get water to a specific spot it is needed. I have to wonder if there isn't a hole in the lower side of the shroud that has corium on either side. Spraying both sides with enough volume gets water to both sides. Using only one or lower volumes of water out of both didn't get the water where it needed to be.
by lillymunster 2/8/2012 2:55:35 AM

heh.
by lillymunster 2/8/2012 2:55:50 AM

makes sense @ lilly
by dean 2/8/2012 2:57:59 AM

It confounds the waste water issues but it isn't like they really have another option.
by lillymunster 2/8/2012 2:59:52 AM

@ all.. we did well today on that
by dean 2/8/2012 3:00:00 AM

@dean I could put this all together for an article tomorrow morning.
by lillymunster 2/8/2012 3:00:33 AM

@lilly.. that lack of seeing water through the inspection port seems to say.. water level much lower for sure
by dean 2/8/2012 3:01:06 AM

@lilly.. it would be a great update for tomorrow simplyinfo
by dean 2/8/2012 3:01:25 AM

corium through that shroud hole would stack up around those jet pump diffusers and possibly make it harder for water to go down that path
by dean 2/8/2012 3:02:45 AM

depending on the depth of the corium if it reached the bottom head and prior to melting through, some of it could have flowed out the discharge recirculating water lines
by dean 2/8/2012 3:05:25 AM


www.tepco.co.jp
this pic is the Flow meter of reactor water injection pump from Unit 3 condensate storage tank to Unit 2


unit 2 condensate storage tank flowmeter label
by lillymunster 2/8/2012 3:10:27 AM

www.gl.iit.edu good article about how the TMI-2 melt went... I know the authors from years ago
by dean 2/8/2012 3:10:33 AM

good find ... would be nice to see unit's to confirm our assumptions today of very low flow rates
by dean 2/8/2012 3:11:20 AM

both boxes in the picture are flowmeters for unit 2 CST. The further away one is max'ed out. The one closer is showing nothing.
by lillymunster 2/8/2012 3:11:44 AM

Measurement result of radioactivity concentration of water treatment facilities <Detection limit value
www.tepco.co.jpby elainekirk 2/8/2012 3:12:54 AM

pretty small piping lines @ lilly and elaine
by dean 2/8/2012 3:13:01 AM

@dean would the ongoing watering rate changes help? We might be able to find another mention where the describe the flow rate measurement system (gallons,liters etc)
by lillymunster 2/8/2012 3:13:17 AM

5a.m. on the 8th 66.7
www.tepco.co.jpby elainekirk 2/8/2012 3:13:49 AM

time for bed says zebedee
by elainekirk 2/8/2012 3:14:52 AM

@dean about fire hose sized. If that is the source for one of the incoming water sprayers it could be a bottleneck. I don't know if they are redundant or tandem. Tandem would at least double the total available water flow.
by lillymunster 2/8/2012 3:15:02 AM