Japan Earthquake | Page 167

  • @Hank Scorpio - correct - not directly designed for the purpose -- but it was discussed earlier [either here or on the Reuters blog] that in practice the basemat may be thick enough, especially if the floor of the containment can be flooded, and that even if the basemat concrete fully erodes, the Fukushima containments are build directly on bedrock. I note however, that I have not seen a reference for that.
    by Joshua Diamond 3/28/2011 6:22:35 PM

  • @Hermine According to latest Kyodo update they didn't sustain any burns. They were treated for potential beta emission burns but didn't sustain any. All 3 workers have been discharged from the hospital on the 27th.
    by Pedro Jesus 3/28/2011 6:23:01 PM

  • I think the point that Jojo is trying to make is that radiation, and it was beta radiation they were exposed to, is energy, much like light. It emits for a certain radius. They water is just a vehicle holding in suspension particles of radiaoactive material. The radiation emitted enters the body uniformly in all directions depending upon the concentration of the radioactive material, that increases the amount of the energy emitted. Its not like it only effects the part of the body that was exposed, just how much it effects it. Correct me if I am wrong.
    by Sin 3/28/2011 6:23:16 PM

  • @Pedro Jesus @All... wasn't there a photo of a burn?? I thought there was.
    by Meretisa 3/28/2011 6:23:40 PM

  • @Hank Scorpio - also, Unit 2 containment breach probably happened pretty early on if you recall -- probably a hydrogen explosion in the torus.
    by Joshua Diamond 3/28/2011 6:23:48 PM

  • So if this guy (and you on here that agree with him) www.cnn.com think this will come to pass (multiple core meltdowns, container breaches), what will that entail? Will it spew radioactive gas as they did before, or will it be mostly liquid local to the plant?
    by Jojo 3/28/2011 6:23:55 PM

  • @radioguy This is what worries me, and is what the Chinese were doubtless concerned about when testing those Japanese visitors the other day.
    by es 3/28/2011 6:23:55 PM

  • @Meretisa Show me.
    by Pedro Jesus 3/28/2011 6:24:11 PM

  • by kgriff via Pre.cloudfront.goodinc 3/28/2011 6:24:12 PM

  • So no "core catcher" other than bedrock at Fukushima, right?
    by Alaskan 3/28/2011 6:24:19 PM

  • We can bicker all we want about full body/partial exposure, but the fact is...given the high level of exposure to the feet...they are at incredible risk of getting metastatic melanoma with much more serious ramifications later on. It's bad no matter how you slice it. At least they might be able to live some semblance of a life!
    by LM 3/28/2011 6:24:27 PM

  • @Hermine The feet were radiated. That was the extent of the burns from what I understand.. So red feet is all. As I understand they walked out of the hospital.(unconfirmed yet) People are waterproof so exposure was minimal
    by NHK Listener 3/28/2011 6:24:27 PM

  • @Pedro Jesus I will look for it. I just mentioned because I thought I saw one. Will look.
    by Meretisa 3/28/2011 6:24:35 PM

  • The video showing the burn was from a compilation from someone who made a youtube video. I think it was fake.
    by Sin 3/28/2011 6:24:51 PM

  • @ Pedro Jesus: oh ok, thank you. my latest information was 'burns' - so I wondered.
    by Hermine 3/28/2011 6:24:56 PM

  • @Sin Exactly. They were just standing in the water, so their exposure was ONLY 2-6 Sv. If they went SWIMMING in it, exposure would have say 200 Sv (for example). They already took into account that they were standing in it to calculate their exposure.
    by Jojo 3/28/2011 6:25:07 PM

  • @Sin That's right. Sieverts are a biological measure and it varies on which part of the body is exposed. That's why Bq's or Curies are a better way to express absolute radiation.
    by Jim Carver 3/28/2011 6:25:44 PM

  • That's the whole "point" of a Sievert, it's a standard dose because they ALREADY TAKE INTO ACCOUNT the point of contact. Note that in tables they don't say 2-6 Sv (if you breathe it, or 1 if you drink the water, etc.). It's just 1 Sv = 1Sv, REGARDLESS OF EXPOSURE TYPE.
    by Jojo 3/28/2011 6:26:28 PM

  • Here's what I dont understand. Radiation levels are becoming so high, arent many TEPCO workers getting their yearly maximum of radiation already? I know workers are being switched out, but I assume that many workers must be pulled out permanently. Could there be a problem of a lack of qualified nuclear workers as people pass their limits?
    by Yuri 3/28/2011 6:26:29 PM

  • @wtm 750 I believe.
    by radioguy 3/28/2011 6:26:49 PM

  • MIT "On Worst Case Scenarios" mitnse.com
    by kgriff 3/28/2011 6:27:14 PM

  • @Yuri Yes. At 1000 mSv/ hour, workers can only be in contact with that basement water for 15 minutes FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR before being PERMANENTLY sent home. My guess is that those safety limits are not being followed.
    by Jojo 3/28/2011 6:27:21 PM

  • At Chernobyl, many of the firefighters seemed fine after initial treatment, talking & joking, then were dead within a month. I believe they called it the "latent" period. I hope that's not the case here.
    by Jay77 3/28/2011 6:27:27 PM

  • @NHK Listener: No wounds? Take a look - about 10 seconds in to the video. www.youtube.com
    by Karen Warren 3/28/2011 6:27:40 PM

  • @Hermine Yes, there has been a lot of talk about burns but apparently they never developed any. Beta radiation burns are different from heat burns. They're more like sunburns (UV)... the effects take a few days to show. That's one of the reasons they spent all this time under observation although none of them felt sick or had any visible injury.
    by Pedro Jesus 3/28/2011 6:27:42 PM

  • @GoJ @all The men and women that build and work in idustrial plants put thier lives on the line every day... (even if you are the person on the line... the imfamous welders tourch can get you while you are standing there) these enviroents contain many potential explosive/chemcal dangers that even with the best of planning go wrong!!! until the day comes you are having to stop production because your employee went to the bathroom an hour ago and is still not back (might have fallen into the molten steel vat.... ) and the home office is getting next of kin... phone numbers... you really can not know how deep and chilling the "beam decap" joke can be....Found the emp..had a diabetic episode fell and was close to death-- emts saved his life... we must recpect all these workers.... and from what i have been reading about the ones in japan "the are just considered disposible" the steel plant here has 2-3 fatallities a year from the beams they make jumping off the line and killing the worker... does not even address the dangers of cutting into a steam/gas line...
    by fitter 3/28/2011 6:28:02 PM

  • @Yuri, that is why they use subcontractors and temps.
    by Peter Melzer 3/28/2011 6:28:10 PM

  • About per body part exposures: www.ndt-ed.org www.ndt-ed.org

    by kgriff via Ndt-ed.org 3/28/2011 6:28:27 PM

  • The burns will be from beta radiation, but they will get gamma radiation as well. And again, it's 100000x better to just "stand" in the water then if they drank it.
    by Jojo 3/28/2011 6:28:41 PM

  • NHK or Kyodo stated earlier today that the Tepco workers on-site now have around 100 mSv, with 250 being the new annual limit. That said some of the workers from the past 2.5 weeks have met their max and are off the job.
    by Alaskan 3/28/2011 6:28:51 PM

  • @Alaskan No core catcher on units 1-5. Unit 6 is a Mark-II containment which might be more robust -- but no guarantees there either.
    by Joshua Diamond 3/28/2011 6:29:14 PM

  • @Yuri Possibly. But according to the operator there have been only 19 workers from the team of nearly 400 that has been exposed to more then 100mSv. So I think they're still OK for now on that department.
    by Pedro Jesus 3/28/2011 6:29:19 PM

  • @Jay77 7-28 days.
    by Jojo 3/28/2011 6:29:26 PM

  • Thank you for explaining. Information is the key :)
    by Hermine 3/28/2011 6:29:30 PM

  • Why is it taking TEPCO so long to report Pu levels? Why aren't journalists asking these questions? According to the IAEA, it takes 24 hours to get results. www.google.com
    by Bev 3/28/2011 6:29:33 PM

  • @Karen Warren Not a foot.. And
    by NHK Listener 3/28/2011 6:29:39 PM

  • @Jojo I seriously question some of the "experts" in these interviews so I think its best to look at the news as its reported. Like I was saying last night TEPco is still in the stabilization phase and this will go on for awhile. The situation is bad but since they are continuing trying to stabilize the site they are working towards the best scenario of stabilization and finally dismantle.
    by George Gibb 3/28/2011 6:29:51 PM

  • If there is a situation that the reactor cores do breach and become a "melt through" situation, I believe that because of the fact that the site is on a cliff area, that there is a chance that the cores could explode toward the water side of the site, rather than go straight down in the soil. That area has had a lot of sea water in the ground, which will provide explosions against a melting core. Those explosions will move the weaker soil, (the soil towards the cliff) and not the harder soil towards the land. Essentially, could have a core explosion and then eventually fall out into the ocean.
    by wtm 3/28/2011 6:29:58 PM

  • The EPA actually states in nuclear emergencies there is NO LIMIT to exposure, as long as workers know the risks. That's probably the case here; I highly doubt workers are sent home after 250 mSv.
    by Jojo 3/28/2011 6:30:14 PM

  • @Joshua -- ty. But I don't think reactors 5&6 are the problem!
    by Alaskan 3/28/2011 6:30:17 PM

  • NHK: Huh?
    by Karen Warren 3/28/2011 6:30:19 PM

  • search.japantimes.co.jp More rad doses to calculate and discuss. Need to exhume Geraldo Rivera and send him in to interview these people!
    by gabe 3/28/2011 6:31:03 PM

  • @Bev www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov Don't know if you saw this yesterday. Can get readings in 60 min.
    by Jim Carver 3/28/2011 6:31:11 PM

  • @George Gibb Sure, we can deal with the facts at hand. I just was asking what everyone thought the future might hold, given the recent past and present.
    by Jojo 3/28/2011 6:31:20 PM

  • sensitivity to radioactivity of different body tissues --> www.ndt-ed.org
    by kgriff 3/28/2011 6:31:27 PM

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