Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 720

@madrat as long as it is clear what are your markups so it doesn't confuse people. Look forward to seeing what you end up with.
by Nancy 4/15/2011 9:00:46 PM

@xxx We also still have no explanation for the hot spot adjacent to the reactor well. They have to periodically spray it with water and it shows up on heat images
by Nancy 4/15/2011 9:01:43 PM

back safe and sound
by dean 4/15/2011 9:02:08 PM

@Nancy Thanks, do you have an original (Non marked) version of the CNIC 'Reactor 4' image? I think thats the only one I cant find elsewhere..
by madrat 4/15/2011 9:03:09 PM

@UKVal I think this means something. Why have mox delivered 10 years before you have a reactor approved to run it? Something is not right. It raises my suspicion that they were running mox without approval and that could be part of the paranoid hush hush,
by Nancy 4/15/2011 9:03:55 PM

@madrat I don't have it online yet. I can email it to you or upload it when I do an update in a bit.
by Nancy 4/15/2011 9:05:05 PM

@Canadian Thanks for the links, I think there may be some new images in there.
by Nancy 4/15/2011 9:05:29 PM

@Nancy ah good stuff, you are quite welcome.
by Canadian 4/15/2011 9:07:28 PM

@Nancy Could you email it to bigmadrat@hotmail.com thanks!
by madrat 4/15/2011 9:08:02 PM

any earth shattering changes?
by dean 4/15/2011 9:08:19 PM

@Nancy when looking at the bldg #4 explosion, on the physic blog someone questioned if there would be "construction gases in the building" it is common to bring in oxygen/accetalene tanks along with nitrogen or argon for welding and cutting... don't know about a nuke building, but even in plants that have explosive enviroments its a long saftey procedure,,,, monitoring air... writting safety plan etc. the tank are usually required to be removed at end of shift or signed back off at shift change... if i am not mistaken the quake happened during the day... when they may have been working... do not know what temp. the cyliners would explode at... also some place, such as tanks we have had to run long hoses, safer than bring into tank... shift change is usually one of the worst time to have an occurance.... i see dean just signed on... he may know what the procedure is here in states for gas cylenders in outages..... where do i look for your new pics
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:09:55 PM

fitter.. hi hope all is well.... yes.. in USA there are very strict requirements for bottle storage.. it's called... ROLLING STOCK. and it all has be fastened down
by dean 4/15/2011 9:11:44 PM

all rolling stock in the plant I worked at hand to have the anchors seismically qualified
by dean 4/15/2011 9:12:35 PM

@fitter so are you talking like a tank for a welding torch that could have contributed to #4's explosion?
by Nancy 4/15/2011 9:14:52 PM

@Nancy No way, explosion was too big.
by xxx 4/15/2011 9:17:20 PM

@Nancy yes, even compress air cylinder will burst, the cyclenders that your compressed gases are in are quite thick.... if you knok the nozzle off the top of most they will go through a concrete wall.... acetelene is not as pressurised, but highly flammable....
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:18:06 PM

gas cylinder explosion.. and they are small ones..
by dean 4/15/2011 9:21:59 PM

fitter I like you .. a person with knowledge in the field.. vnice
by dean 4/15/2011 9:22:28 PM

@xxx @nancy ....may not be the only explosive, but may have been contributing factor.... increasing the oxygen in an area, oxygen enriched inviroment.... also something to ask dean.... the control rod are hydraylic... the drawing we have shows the pumps and pipning at the equator elevation... the fire they talk about "black smoke" could that have been hydraylic fluid burning.... after reading some of the blogs today and the fire/explosion being low in the building .... maybe two different ones ..... it may be a combination of many factors...
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:23:03 PM

@dean what do you think about maybe they were working on the hydraulic piping.... we do a lot of hydrl piping i don't know the burn rate etc.... we have to do some "fire prep/safety plannning" it could be jello and it would not make a difference.... did you know a tobacco plant has quite a few explosions from "tobacco dust".... you could eat off any part of the plant.... they wipe every inch pipe racks/ tanks down daily because of the explosive properties....
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:27:25 PM

fitter, if you can find the prints for the canal.. they have cleaning systems in them and are sometimes at the corners.. perhaps the resin in the cleaning and skimming systems caught fire... I thought the bulk of the black smoke was from the spent fuel pools?
by dean 4/15/2011 9:27:49 PM

@fitter if the SFP heated up causing the tank to burst could a blast of oxygen been enough to set off the hydrogen from the SFP
by Nancy 4/15/2011 9:29:20 PM

@dean i have been seaching for days.... can not find anything but P&ID's, but the more i find the more things that are probaly a mess not working and contributed to any explosion that stared...
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:30:00 PM

did not know that fitter.. very intersting... you know all the debris that fell back down on the facility or .. some insulation or roofing material maybe tar... could have fallen in the SFP and caught fire
by dean 4/15/2011 9:30:02 PM

Nancy.. if you look at the good photos of the main floor of one of those plants.. and make out what all they have in there.. cabinets,, material storage, fire extinguishers,etc,,, or roofing and walls.. you may see materials, which if caught on fire , would burn different colors.. remember we saw.. rust color and I think some white ETC.
by dean 4/15/2011 9:31:55 PM

@dean exactly, the flammables are considerable... also the water is not just water, there are a lot a things in a "shutdown work" area that would not be permitted at any time otherswise.... and if it was around shft change.... thats when things usually go wrong... just like the guy who drop the ball passing to the next tag guy...
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:34:02 PM

AGREE... wish we had the daily shift supervisors log.. wow we would know it all..
by dean 4/15/2011 9:36:01 PM

@dean we had to evacute a work area "plant personal" because the "fire watch" use a fire extinguer that stuck open to put of......... a rag, he could have steped on..... the client was not happy... but it was a very highly flammable area...
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:36:09 PM

or get our hands on the #4 maintenance plan...
by dean 4/15/2011 9:36:13 PM

wow
by dean 4/15/2011 9:36:32 PM

@dean As I am digging through some of these better debris photos there are some common things showing up. Like the white-ish strips all over are painted corrugated metal. I also found some rusted ones. Also what looks like a missing roof frame section of #3. Exposed parts are painted that pale yellow beige color of the refueling floor interior. Parts that would have been in the wall are heavily rusted. So I am wondering if there is a moisture problem and unpainted steel in sections that are not in plain sight. But still not quite finding an answer for the rusty beams all over. They almost seem to have been independent of other structures.
by Nancy 4/15/2011 9:36:51 PM

@dean i'd almost be happy just to find a second elevation drawing....
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:36:57 PM

@fitter would maintenance work happen 24 hours or just day shift work? That might give clues if something was going on or not.
by Nancy 4/15/2011 9:38:07 PM

@dean one more "fire watch" storie..... we were up in the basket, i was welding.... had to wake the fire watch up to tell him the bottom of his pants were burnt off..... it was 19 deg out he had lots of clothing on... luck for him my rod had run out
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:39:06 PM

Have you seen Vals post next door?
by elainekirk 4/15/2011 9:39:45 PM

I wondered about the strips of material of construction too... not sure how a wall section of that facility is.. steel frame, concrete, some kind of covering for moisture barrier, inside finishing.. maybe we can tell from a photo of the inside.. can you post a good one..
by dean 4/15/2011 9:41:13 PM

@Nancy depending on the schedule of when they want the unit back on line, usually 24/7.. if a plant is not producing ist not making money, we have a plant that the liqudated damage can be a million a day for every day we miss start up...... we do get vendors out of bed at 2:00 am to open the store up
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:41:40 PM

what a surprise that would have been fitter.. wow.. hey buddy.. your on fire.. RUN
by dean 4/15/2011 9:45:36 PM

@dean we were about 80 feet in the air
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:46:21 PM

MOMMA MIA... you one of those types ,,,, with your safety belt I hope
by dean 4/15/2011 9:48:24 PM

@dean those buildings look like they are heavly reinforced concrte, columms and panels.... even looks like inside walls are a thick concrete partion, fire and explosion deferents to contain an ops ... to a smaller location.. the inside looks like insulation with a metal sheeting skin... may have lead ?????... and no they did't enforce saftey belts back then... but i do walk beans on my butt... I'm a fitter not an iron worker... i walk the inside web, so if i slip that beam is between my legs..
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:51:41 PM

fitter. you better just wear your belt.. we need you in here.. NOTTY NOTTY... have you ever seen an iron worker slide off the cables that hold stationary cranes up.... ?
by dean 4/15/2011 9:53:47 PM

@dean the more i study the elev. drawing the more complex i find the piping system to be, has any one seen or noticed a relief line from the torus to the working level to vent outside, in the states it was added as a saftey to elevate the design flaw with the steam pressure venting to the torus..... us fitters are rode hard and put away wet..... and if you can stay away from an ironworker you will live longer... OSHA has setted them down a bit, but not much
by fitter 4/15/2011 9:56:58 PM