Japan Earthquake | Page 1328

  • @Angie night Angie!
    by UKVal 5/23/2011 1:27:40 PM

  • @Nancy SCRAM Scram is usually cited as being an acronym for safety control rod axe man, however the term is probably a backronym. The actual axe man at the first chain-reaction was Norman Hilberry. In a letter to Dr. Raymond Murray (January 21, 1981), Hilberry wrote:

    When I showed up on the balcony on that December 2, 1942 afternoon, I was ushered to the balcony rail, handed a well sharpened fireman's ax and told, "if the safety rods fail to operate, cut that manila rope." The safety rods, needless to say, worked, the rope was not cut... I don't believe I have ever felt quite as foolish as I did then. ...I did not get the SCRAM [Safety Control Rod Axe Man] story until many years after the fact. Then one day one of my fellows who had been on Zinn's construction crew called me Mr. Scram. I asked him, "How come?" And then the story.

    The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission verifies that this etymology of SCRAM is the correct one in their glossary, stating:

    Also known as a “reactor trip,” “scram” is actually an acronym for “safety control rod axe man,” the worker assigned to insert the emergency rod on the first reactor (the Chicago Pile) in the United States.[4]
    by RBeaner 5/23/2011 1:28:18 PM

  • @RBeaner think I prefer my version!!
    by UKVal 5/23/2011 1:29:16 PM

  • @you Hard to believe, but the axe was the last line of defense
    by RBeaner 5/23/2011 1:29:35 PM

  • @RBeaner I'd like to have taken an axe to a few of those decision makers who ignored history & built Fuku in a quake prone area!
    by UKVal 5/23/2011 1:31:22 PM

  • @UKVal Yes, we have issues with sewage and water drainage. Every year, regardless of the season, when heavy rain coincides with very high tides, there's a flood somewhere in the lower coastal areas. A few years ago, the pub where I had been playing the night before flooded knee high and my guitar amp went scuba diving. The year after, must have been 2008 or 2009, we had another flood at the same place right after my gig and we had just enough time to pile our gear up on the upper level of the stage (where the drum kit sits). I still retain a photographic memory of a bottle of Jack Daniels floating around. One of my friends grabbed it and we had a few shots to celebrate our quick response. It was like watching a miniature tsunami: one moment there was no water, a few seconds later it was up to the knees. We were lucky enough to have anticipated the event (from the previous year's experience). Multiplying that by 20 or 30 times gives a very scary impression of what a real tsunami would be like.
    by Pedro Jesus 5/23/2011 1:33:26 PM

  • nancy.. alittle history on SCRAM... in the very early days of the nuclear there were control rods and they were held by basically ropes over a pile... .there was a man stationed at the ropes going thru an area where he could chop the ropes and let the rods drop... so. .they coined the work .. SAFETY CONTROL ROD AXE MAN..... later some refered to it as .. STOP CRITICAL REACTION AVOID MELTDOWN... and today it's just the nuclear term for using the safety rods (not control rods) through a higher speed drive to stop the criticality and take the reactor to a sub critical state.
    by dean 5/23/2011 1:39:02 PM

  • the control rods were held that way
    by dean 5/23/2011 1:39:21 PM

  • @Pedro Jesus gosh - if people know this is likely can they not build floodgates or something? After 100's were drowned where I live in the UK in 1953 we have warning sirens & walls & floodgates to protect the most vulnerable towns.
    by UKVal 5/23/2011 1:40:02 PM

  • @dean sent email Going BB for bit
    by RBeaner 5/23/2011 1:40:33 PM

  • @dean hah! i suggested Shove Control Rods Avoid Meltdown (sorry couldn't resist that!)
    by UKVal 5/23/2011 1:41:14 PM

  • ty RBeaner opening it now..
    by dean 5/23/2011 1:41:18 PM

  • I saw that UK HA HA .. GOOD ONE
    by dean 5/23/2011 1:41:33 PM

  • .. but I didn't know the real origin was so bizarre...
    by UKVal 5/23/2011 1:42:39 PM

  • ONE POINT.. the "safety rods' must keep the reactor sub critical .. such that the reactor cannot go critical by withdrawing control rods only ... they have to work on control and safety rods during outages at times but the TECHINCAL SAFETY REQUIREMENTS dictate what kind of shutdown margin is needed
    by dean 5/23/2011 1:42:55 PM

  • UK nuclear was something else in the beginning.. the original study on critical mass, ,well in the early days, a man was at a table, with a shielded glass in front of him and he moved two masses of fissile material slowly together and they reached a small critical mass and flashed,.... DUH...
    by dean 5/23/2011 1:44:09 PM

  • @dean oh good grief! mind you what with bath salts, nappy filler, greeen goo & curtains not much has changed when the chips are down
    by UKVal 5/23/2011 1:45:23 PM

  • @deb - thanks. Have you the moment when the camera pic went pink, probably around 1906 JST? (Reported by bojack54)
    by hudebnik 5/23/2011 1:49:59 PM

  • @dean I skipped explaining the acronym on the paper and just explained what it meant about the reactor safety shutdown. :-)
    by Nancy 5/23/2011 1:51:50 PM

  • @Nancy I think that was wise - noone who didn't know it would bleieve the derivation!
    by UKVal 5/23/2011 1:53:09 PM

  • Acronym

    BWR – Boiling Water Reactor
    CV – Containment Vessel
    ECCS – Emergency Core Coolant Syatem
    EDG or DG – Emergency Diesel Generator
    HPCI – High Pressure Coolant Injection
    LPCI – Low Pressure Coolant Injection
    PCV – Pressure Control Vessel
    RCIC – Reactor Core Isolation Cooling
    RPV – Reactor Pressure Vessel (same as PCV)
    SORV –Safety Operated Relief Valve
    by dean 5/23/2011 1:54:34 PM

  • Trying to catch up, any new flashes/glowing/smoking, etc.?
    by NervousinNJ 5/23/2011 1:54:35 PM

  • @NervousinNJ No new flashes, just the "normal" steam and smoke coming from #2, 3, 4.
    by deb 5/23/2011 1:56:50 PM

  • @deb @nervous - so my rash prediction for today is that as we haven't had any strange flashes etc on camera tonight there won't be a 'big smoke/steam' event, just the usual gentle simmer. No, I won't be putting any money on it!
    by hudebnik 5/23/2011 2:03:00 PM

  • @deb Tx. ugh, isn't it sad that the smoke is normal??
    by NervousinNJ 5/23/2011 2:03:31 PM

  • @hudebnik Interesting, and i hope you're right :)
    by NervousinNJ 5/23/2011 2:04:59 PM

  • Crowdsourcing Japan radiation measures : www.safecast.org
    by Ian 5/23/2011 2:05:30 PM

  • another facebook group tracking info about Fukushima I talked to the group owner this morning. Posting in case anyone is interested in joining. www.facebook.com
    by Nancy 5/23/2011 2:06:03 PM

  • Morning all! @NervousinNJ I COMPLETELY agree too!
    by LM 5/23/2011 2:06:16 PM

  • @NervousinNJ - it's right not to prolong the discussion as this isn't the right place, but felt I had to let you know
    by UKVal 5/23/2011 2:08:31 PM

  • @dean Thanks dean, added those acronyms as a handy blog post on the group site.
    by Nancy 5/23/2011 2:11:32 PM

  • Nancy.. I am going to get my hands on a full acronym list for BWR reactors then you can add to that..
    by dean 5/23/2011 2:13:24 PM

  • We had earlier a glossary of nuclear terms that is good to have also @ Nancy
    by dean 5/23/2011 2:13:49 PM

  • @LM and @UKVal Thank you :)
    by NervousinNJ 5/23/2011 2:15:46 PM

  • @hudebnik In ref to previous discussions re SFP 4 I have been searching for some reports I know I read early on -having trouble finding. Did find the following: ASSESSMENT:
    Given the amount of decay heat in the fuel in the pool, it is likely that in the days immediately
    following the accident, the fuel was partially uncovered. The lack of cooling resulted in zirc
    water reaction and a release of hydrogen. The hydrogen exploded and damaged secondary
    containment. The zirc water reaction could have continued, resulting in a major source term
    release.
    Fuel particulates may have been ejected from the pool (based on information of neutron emitters
    found up to 1 mile from the units, and very high dose rate material that had to be bulldozed over
    between Units 3 and 4. It is also possible the material could have come from Unit 3). fukushimafaq.wikispaces.com
    by ch 5/23/2011 2:20:05 PM

  • Wouldn't this create damage to fuel thus negating the 'pristine' pics on video ofSFP 4? reference below
    by ch 5/23/2011 2:24:33 PM

  • Facility for tainted water almost full search.japantimes.co.jp
    by Markfm 5/23/2011 2:24:56 PM

  • Kan denies he pulled plug on seawater search.japantimes.co.jp
    by Markfm 5/23/2011 2:26:08 PM

  • @Markfm - sounds like he's denying he tried to drain the oceanLOL!
    by UKVal 5/23/2011 2:27:27 PM

  • People said early on that their water storage system is insufficient and couldn't process water back out as fast as it is produced. They will be out of storage in 3 days. So what happens when things start filling up further? Doesn't this mean draining buildings to put a recirculating pump into the suppression chamber is not going to happen? www3.nhk.or.jp
    by Nancy 5/23/2011 2:30:31 PM

  • Fukushima reactor had meltdown 3.5 hours after cooling system collapsed: U.S. researcher mdn.mainichi.jp
    by Markfm 5/23/2011 2:38:28 PM

  • New Fairewinds video. www.fairewinds.com
    by LM 5/23/2011 2:38:29 PM

  • Decay heat in Fukushima reactors allthingsnuclear.org "the molten fuel mass would then react with the concrete floor of the primary containment and create additional radioactive gases. If these are released to the atmosphere, either through venting or a leak in the containment (which could be caused by the molten fuel), it could add significantly to the total radiation released by the accident." I would like to add that not only would additional radioactive gases be produced, it would aerosolize the material and efficiently release the radioactive materials into the atmosphere. Aerosols are much more prevalent than gases in such a scenario.
    by Bobby1 5/23/2011 2:45:15 PM

  • @Nancy Well, they have the superfloat. What you wanna bet they have a way of dumping superfloat directly in the ocean in an "emergency" Sorry for being so cynical first thing in the morning.
    by Shadow 5/23/2011 2:46:57 PM

  • @Shadow -that's what I suspect will happen. And it will be easliy done as the float is so unstable in an ocean swell
    by UKVal 5/23/2011 2:52:28 PM

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