Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1503

@Peter Melzer really need to make sense of it but it shows pipe diamiters and pathflows plus vavles... don't understand the purpose of the rupture disk after a "manual REMOTE valve" this i have to think about ?????? the rupture disk I understand... shawdow don't think it involves the generators but good thought I will look at that... bacck to movie have had to rewind 4 times now???

by fitter at 4:29 PM The purpose of having a rupture disk after the manual valve is so that it the valve has any passing/leaking or is inadvertanly opened it doesn't drop the pressure in the reactor. IF the manual valve needs to be opened in an emergency to releive high pressure it would certainly be above what the rupture disk is rated for. If you inadvertanly drop the pressure from a reactor that is operating normally it would have dire consequences. You would instanly vapourize a huge volume of water in the reactor that relies on a minumum pressure to maintain the liquid state. Curiouser and Curiouser.
by Lethbridgean at 3:43 PM
by FradyKat 6/5/2011 12:31:04 AM

en.wikipedia.org Wylfa NPP
by radioguy 6/5/2011 12:47:48 AM

@fitter , I have got a link to a vid. from an overflight of this: www.youtube.com
by Peter Melzer 6/5/2011 12:49:14 AM

@Peter Melzer I only use my know vendor sites and e-mails that i know... it gets me in trouble with some of my freinds, but if I ask other to doit then I should be doing the same,
by fitter 6/5/2011 12:55:20 AM

by Peter Melzer 6/5/2011 12:57:37 AM

@you , embedding did work. Only nixed my text. So the vid. below shows the vent in question a little more from different angles. I hope you can watch it at your convenience sometime.
by Peter Melzer 6/5/2011 12:59:40 AM

I went back 30 pages on the other blog, couldn't find any combos for fitter and lethbridgean
by FradyKat 6/5/2011 1:00:44 AM

@fradycat ty I am going to tidy this page up now as much as possible
by elainekirk 6/5/2011 1:02:49 AM

Hi @ll
@elainekirk Thank you for finding the webcache of the WHOI information earlier.

@all Salu posted this earlier, but it's worth a re-posting. Here's a link to both parts of the Gundersen/Martenson interview...
Transcript for Exclusive Arnie Gundersen Interview: The Dangers of Fukushima Are Worse and Longer-lived Than We Think www.chrismartenson.com
by Reed 6/5/2011 1:11:03 AM

TEPCO eyes design flaw in hydrogen explosion www.asahi.com
by Reed 6/5/2011 1:18:43 AM

@reed they are pathetic the nrc , iaea everybody knows that flaw they never changed the known fault because containment especially in #1 was too small
by elainekirk 6/5/2011 1:22:14 AM

@fitter , also note that this pipe does not possess a dead end to catch soot etc. at the bottom. It emerges straight from what looks like a manifold.
by Peter Melzer 6/5/2011 1:23:26 AM

News Navigator: What is re-criticality?
mdn.mainichi.jp
(No mention, however, of the continuing presence of I-131 which suggests otherwise.)
by Reed 6/5/2011 1:27:41 AM

@reed it is clever they wait till the iaea interim is out no mention of cockups and negligence yet so hey presto pull off a pr stunt confess to having venting problems explain it in tepco talk then hey presto in 3weeks when iaea report is released it is not news
by elainekirk 6/5/2011 1:37:13 AM

@elainekirk NISA, IAEA,TEPCo, and NRC seem too 'closely related' to 'breed' confidence.
Sadly, your point about the GoJ now using TEPCo's 'PR via NHK trick' yesterday is all too true.
by Reed 6/5/2011 1:37:40 AM

@reed i have had the misfortune of reading the iaea reports into the KK plant of tepcos that was damaged in the '07 quake and I dont see any chance of this next one finding any major flaws in the industry or Japanese regulation or tepco
by elainekirk 6/5/2011 1:40:03 AM

@elainekirk Let us hope that the free Press takes them to task for the past and present data falsifications. You've done such an amazing job colecting information on the issues that I think that you should send a summary of your findings to interested press outlets.
by Reed 6/5/2011 1:44:01 AM

Two quick comments on yesterday's NHK story which stated "123 million becquerels of radioactive iodine-131 were detected 38 kilometers northeast of the plant". First, NE of the plant would put it in the ocean, so I assume they meant NW. Second, in today's Japanese language Asahi newspaper they are giving the figure as 123万 (i.e. 1,230,000 becquerels/kg). I don't know if that means there was an error/mistranslation yesterday, or if there has been a 'downgrade' of the data's seriousness. Whatever, I cannot get my head around even the lower figure, especially when the sale of tea in Chiba-ken is being restricted at much, much lower levels.
by Will 6/5/2011 1:44:10 AM

Re vents, this might be the one for unit 1, only near the NE corner: i1214.photobucket.com
by Peter Melzer via I1214.photobucket 6/5/2011 1:45:27 AM

@will that is astonishing ! @reed I dont even keep track
by elainekirk 6/5/2011 1:47:15 AM

@Will I just checked the NHK article, and you're correct. There must be a mistake with that NE direction. According to the data, it should read as NW from Daiichi.
@elainekirk You should start a 'lies & misinformation' data folder if only for your own fun. :)
by Reed 6/5/2011 1:56:48 AM

@mod signing off now for sleep have cleaned up , have a good time everybody thanks for a great evening (Night elaine! sleep well!)
by elainekirk edited by Angie 6/5/2011 2:10:15 AM

@elainekirk Good night, & thank you.
by Reed 6/5/2011 2:11:02 AM

Kan To Step Down By Aug, To Put Through 3 Bills Before Quitting

TOKYO (Kyodo)--Prime Minister Naoto Kan plans to step down by August due to renewed calls from the opposition and within his ruling Democratic Party of Japan for his early resignation after he made remarks suggesting he would stay on until around January, his aides and DPJ sources said Saturday.
e.nikkei.com
by Reed 6/5/2011 2:30:47 AM

@Reed another joke by the nuke industry, next one will be one of them!
by skibboy 6/5/2011 2:34:56 AM

High radiation levels around ditches in Fukushima
High radiation levels have been detected above roadside drainage ditches in Fukushima Prefecture, which hosts the crippled nuclear power plant.

Japan's Nuclear Safety Commission tested radiation levels in the air about 1 meter from the ground at a business district in the prefectural capital on May 24th and 25th.

The test detected radiation of 3 to 4 microsieverts per hour above ditches covered with mud and fallen leaves. The level reached nearly 100 microsieverts in the mud. It is believed that radioactive dust has accumulated in the mud and leaves.

The results are higher than those in other parts of the city, which were 1 to 2 microsieverts at the same locations.

The commission has noted the need to remove highly radioactive mud and leaves from ditches along busy streets. It calls on people to wear masks and gloves to prevent inhalation of radioactive substances during that work.
www3.nhk.or.jp
by LM 6/5/2011 2:54:41 AM

Pressure in No.1 reactor drops close to atmosphere
Tokyo Electric Power Company has found that pressure inside the Number 1 reactor at its Fukushima Daiichi power plant has dropped to close to the outside atmospheric pressure. It reaffirms that the reactor has been damaged.

The reactor is believed to have suffered a meltdown after the March 11th disaster. The meltdown apparently created holes in the pressure vessel and damaged the containment vessel, letting highly radioactive water flow below ground in the turbine building.

Pressure inside an operating reactor is normally around 70 atmospheres. But after the disaster, the pressure indicator showed 6 atmospheres in the Number 1 reactor, raising questions about data reliability.

On Friday, the utility replaced the gauge with a new one and made measurements again. www3.nhk.or.jp
by LM 6/5/2011 2:55:39 AM

This World Nuclear Association report with the title "Fukushima Accident 2011" updated May 30 ( www.world-nuclear.org ) claims that the units at the Fukushima nuclear power station were upgraded with hardened vent systems: “Apparently all engineering modifications and upgrades recommended were carried out by Tepco, as they were in the USA, including fitting hardened vents from the suppression chamber, though this measure was not mandated by NISA as it was by US NRC. All of the changes required by regulatory authorities were implemented.” The report provides some further detail of more general interest.
by Peter Melzer 6/5/2011 3:01:08 AM

@Peter You'd think the Fuku hardened vent retrofit failures would be enough reason to consider shutting down similar plants here in the US.
by LM 6/5/2011 3:03:54 AM

@Peter That's assuming they were retrofitted and failed....
by LM 6/5/2011 3:07:58 AM

@all Good Morning...Good Evening...Hello!
by smoss 6/5/2011 3:10:56 AM

@LM , at least this should not be taken lightly, particularly because the implementation varies so much among plants. That is why I care about this issue. A list should be prepared with the hardened vent systems that the operators installed here in the US. It must be ensured the no hydrogen can flow back into the buildings and that the emissions are satisfactorily scrubbed. A moratorium should be instituted on these reactors until these issues are resolved. There may be more.
by Peter Melzer 6/5/2011 3:12:38 AM

@Peter I couldn't agree more!
by LM 6/5/2011 3:13:36 AM

The World Nuclear Association report Peter posted (thanks Peter!) notes that the explosion of Unit 3 "has not been fully explained as yet."
by Ian 6/5/2011 3:13:43 AM

Hi smoss!
by LM 6/5/2011 3:13:59 AM

@LM , and yes they did fail, why? I read on the by that there are something like 13 ways to inject water into the RPV. Nothing helped!
by Peter Melzer 6/5/2011 3:14:35 AM

@Peter I believe it.
by LM 6/5/2011 3:15:49 AM

@Ian , there are lots of interesting numbers in this report. Alas, I am not the one who could crosscheck their validity. Of interest are also the statements about quake strength and resilience.
by Peter Melzer 6/5/2011 3:16:17 AM

@all Have been trying to check in periodically throughout the day...Has anyone posted the video footage of steam from Reactor 1 building?
by smoss 6/5/2011 3:21:12 AM

@Peter Thanks for the post by the way...lots of great info, not to mention....it's nice that they acknowledge that the Unit 3 explosion hasn't been fully explained.
by LM 6/5/2011 3:22:11 AM

@LM The radiation figures for Fukushima city reported by NHK are horrific. Nearly 100 microsieverts/hour in the mud?! I have tried to calculate what that would be over 24 hours, over a year etc and the figures are unbelievable. I hope I am getting my conversion of microsieverts to millisieverts wrong. The recent 'debate' over a 1 versus 20 millisievert dose limit for schoolchildren seems overshadowed by these figures today.
by Will 6/5/2011 3:25:51 AM

@all Found it...Edano posted 5 pages back
by smoss 6/5/2011 3:26:41 AM

@Will You are correct...the rads in mud would come out to 876 millisieverts in a year....a ridiculously high number!
by LM 6/5/2011 3:35:00 AM

@LM , there is also another issue mentioned in this report I have trouble with and that is that hydrogen flowed from 3 to 4 through the piping that connected both reactors to a common stack tower. Pics show that the pipe from unit 4 to that tower was ruptured. The question remains when precisely the pipe was damaged. The damage may have been inflicted already by the explosion at unit 3. If true, the question remains how that much gas could end up in unit 4. So if anyone sees that pipe intact, while the building of unit 4 is still whole and that of unit 3 already destroyed would be great.
by Peter Melzer 6/5/2011 3:35:18 AM

@Peter I have a little trouble with that as well..not convinced..if water levels dropped for enough time, the casings in SFP 4 could have ignited building hydrogen causing an explosion...I'm not an expert but I think the jury is still out. I'd love to see better pics as well!
by LM 6/5/2011 3:39:06 AM