Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1496

@All, Interview w/Gundersen Part 1/2 from 6/03/11 www.chrismartenson.com
by Salu 6/4/2011 2:50:10 PM

CORIUM COOLABILITY UNDER EX-VESSEL ACCIDENT
CONDITIONS FOR LWRs
MITCHELL T. FARMER*, DENNIS J. KILSDONK and ROBERT W. AESCHLIMANN
Nuclear Engineering Division, Argonne National Laboratory The primary emphasis of this research was placed on containment integrity, with: hydrogen combustion-detonation, steam explosion, direct containment heating (DCH), and melt attack on the BWR Mark-I containment shell identified as energetic processes that could lead to early containment failure (i.e., within the first 24 hours of the accident). Should the core melt fail the reactor vessel, then non-condensable gas production from Molten Core-Concrete Interaction (MCCI) was identified as a mechanism that could fail the containment by pressurization over the long term. One signification question that arose as part of this investigation was the effectiveness of water in terminating an MCCI by flooding the interacting masses from above, thereby quenching the molten core debris and rendering it permanently coolable. article.nuclear.or.kr
by Tenzing 6/4/2011 2:52:29 PM

Question: How do the core shroud replacements at TEMPCO's Fukushima No. 1 NPP change the finding in the research paper posted below?

by Tenzing 6/4/2011 2:55:55 PM

5th grader allegedly dies of radiation poisoning in Shizuoka translate.google.com
by Bobby1 6/4/2011 2:58:56 PM

@Edano: You once lashed at me for my (unproven) theory of what was really happening at F.D. and accused me of trying to fear-monger, etc, when at the time I was only trying to convey my intuitive analysis of the severe danger present. My post is not to say "I told you so" but to tell you that the only reason I even originally posted here (or even followed along) was because I do not want to see people harmed by the result of the 'worst-case' scenario at Fukushima and my goal all along has been to try and cause people to consider all the possibilities present so that reaction times wouldn't be delayed by people thinking "oh, that will never happen". The people in this forum have contacts everywhere, and any scientist will investigate an idea, if only to disprove it, and that's what we need: Investigate EVERY possibility. Now, I fear that #1 has actually 'China Syndromed' based on the news of 4 Sieverts inside the building (#1) and to be honest, I always thought it was #3 with the most likely chance of melting through. Now, if #1 has reached the basement, there are a whole lot more problems we are going to have to deal with and the sooner the better because as a global society, we have the responsibility of making sure that millions of lives aren't endangered. The earth itself will bounce back over time, it's nature's way. In the meantime...... don't let shortsightedness influence decisions, for anything is possible. All we can do now it try to ensure the safety of those near the event and we need to do everything we can to be proactive, even if the odds of 'china syndrome' are negligible. Negligible does not mean nonexistant. Love and prayers to the Far East, I wish I could do more than enlightenment or suggestive reasoning, but since that's all I can do from my corner of the world I will do it as best as possible. I know you care Edano and thats why I posted this.
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/4/2011 3:03:45 PM

Pressure is here, they dont release full tables yet, : www.tepco.co.jp
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:09:05 PM

and in case of water level im talking about sfp
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:09:27 PM

here is data plot for unit 1 sfp: img845.imageshack.us
by xxx via Img845.imageshack.us 6/4/2011 3:10:49 PM

Data from 5/16 to 6/4 measured 2 times per day...
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:11:02 PM

if you want raw pressure data recompute this yourself: www.tepco.co.jp
by xxx via Tepco.co.jp 6/4/2011 3:11:51 PM

Tepco lie about pressure in unit 1, if you look on indiators scale you can compute that it can show max 3 times atmospheric pressure, but they were reporting ~1.5MPa sience many days when 1.5 is 15 times atmospheric pressure, so this mean that they know that temperature is around atmospheric, and they were correct...
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:19:27 PM

*correction I mean pressure, not temperature
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:20:37 PM

Xxx, normal operating pressure of a bwr is around 70 atm, 7Mpa, so any gauge that only goes to 3atm isn't measuring rpv pressure
by Markfm 6/4/2011 3:34:11 PM

@Markfm yes this mean that tepco know that unit 1 is open to air and dont keep pressure
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:35:00 PM

@xxx -OR- there is no fission taking place therefore no pressure to build.... finding the source of the 4 Sieverts inside #1 is crucial to answering your claim of 'open to air'.
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/4/2011 3:38:13 PM

@Dennis Tucker Jr it not need fission to generate pressure, there is decay heat
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:41:41 PM

@xxx Understood, but if they are able to keep it cool by circulating water, the rate of pressure increase would also drop over time. What is the current tempurature inside #1?
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/4/2011 3:43:08 PM

source of 4Sv is radioactive boiling water which have contact with coriumit look like unit 1, level -2(torus) and -1 are 100% flooded
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:43:17 PM

@Dennis Tucker Jr temperature is around 120C
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:43:38 PM

but there is * - if core is in drywell temperature readings are smaller than they should be
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:44:57 PM

@Dennis Tucker Jr hello, have not seen you in a while... have you found any other intersing boards... do you know were some of the others went? Good moring all
by fitter 6/4/2011 3:45:37 PM

@xxx now we're talking.... water is boiling for sure (known fact). The one set of guages in the pic- are they RPV or CV guages?? 1.5MPa would indicate that the CV is holding and not perforated through.... Need more info to make judgement on that one.

@fitter: No sir, I simply took a hiatus from posting because information had slowed drastically. I constantly monitor the Kyodo news site for latest developments and until today there wasn't anything significant and/or conclusive to comment on. I only come to this board still, thanks to George et al. Good to see you guys still keeping active also!!!

by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/4/2011 3:48:23 PM

@Tenzing interesting article thanks
by fitter 6/4/2011 3:48:49 PM

@Dennis Tucker Jr grrr, my english is bad but I will try to explain this better: sience many days tepco give in reports 1.2 and next 1.5MPa as RPV pressure, but they installed additional pressure sensor to check if 1.5 was correct, (like with water level before) and boom, they were not correct, RPV pressure in unit 1 is 0,1263MPa, where 0,1013 is atmospheric pressure, but the point is that they know that pressure is around atmospheric because they installed pressure meters which can show max 3 times atmospheric pressure
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:52:22 PM

look on 2 photos how they installed indicators, you can read data without problem: www.tepco.co.jp
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:53:10 PM

@Dennis Tucker Jr I have not seen the verbage or the reports on the gauges... but do you know if in fact the picture is "operational" or is in response to the plan that they released and they posted it to show it is being installed.... and I thought I had read that some of it was to be connected at a future date? It this now operational completely?
by fitter 6/4/2011 3:53:25 PM

they also updated pressure in new report here: www.tepco.co.jp
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:54:12 PM

and here you can find data how instruments work and how to recompute data: www.tepco.co.jp
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:55:02 PM

@xxx do the reports match the pictures people seem t be quoting?
by fitter 6/4/2011 3:55:06 PM

you mean this picture ? yes: www.tepco.co.jp
by xxx via Tepco.co.jp 6/4/2011 3:55:52 PM

@Dennis Tucker Jr take care
by fitter 6/4/2011 3:56:12 PM

left is lower pressure (on bottom of RPV) center is differential, right upper RPV pressure
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:56:37 PM

@xxx no need to apologize for language barrier, any intellectual person can easily interpret what you mean so I'm good with your English lol! I do have to agree that the pressure seems to indicate that there is perforation and that the CV can only LIMIT the escape of radioactive materials now. But if it were China Syndromed, I'd have to believe that the pressure would not even be above atmospheric at all. So now the question is: Where and how large is the perforation(s) in the CV?
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/4/2011 3:56:38 PM

Thanks fitter, good to see you on here and I'm sure we will talk again soon!!
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/4/2011 3:57:09 PM

@Dennis Tucker Jr LOL
by fitter 6/4/2011 3:57:55 PM

RPV was damaged by melting corium, so it have holes in bottom as tepco report some time ago when they discover that there is almost no water in unit 1 RPV
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:58:18 PM

@fitter I don't know if they are operational, xxx seems to have way more info on them than I am aware of....
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/4/2011 3:58:44 PM

pressure is bigger than atmospheric because of steam which increase it
by xxx 6/4/2011 3:58:48 PM

Hi Dennis Tucker Jr: Very happy to see here, its been a long time. TY for your post at 8:03 PST USA I'm sure many others here are on the same page, so to speak.
by Tenzing 6/4/2011 3:59:17 PM

@Dennis Tucker Jr I would vet most of my infromation if its important to you
by fitter 6/4/2011 3:59:28 PM

@xxx Yes, but smaller perforations mean less material escaped the CV... we've assumed that the RPV is melted through already, based on what we know. But the CV is the failsafe for the RPV and the last line of defense against radiation leakage so the fact that it is holding ANY pressure indicates that it didn't just melt through like Chernobyl did.
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/4/2011 4:00:50 PM

@Dennis Tucker Jr yes but as we can see we cant trust old data, two water levels were incorrect and two RPV pressure indicators were incorrect... so I assume that drywell is also damaged
by xxx 6/4/2011 4:03:18 PM

@Tenzing Thank you and good to see you as well!! I never left, like I said earlier I only took a hiatus from posting but have been following along every day :)
by Dennis Tucker Jr 6/4/2011 4:03:52 PM

here is new data in new report screenshot: img171.imageshack.us
by xxx via Img171.imageshack.us 6/4/2011 4:04:10 PM

@Dennis Tucker Jr the web info has lost most of the netrual, scientific value and the negitive or incorrct infor moves from site to site, there by deluting some of the values and origin... For the area of my field most of what I see is "maniplulated" so thats why I only use what I can vet back to the original source... plus many virus (not to bad now) have been attached... take care
by fitter 6/4/2011 4:04:34 PM