Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1501

@ all.. in my opinion the contractural deals made between GE or other reactor companies and foreign entities fall outside of what is normally done in the USA and,, there is a different regulatory and inspection governance. I'm sure that GE was the vendor of the FUKUSHIMA reactors but they were built in Japan to different guidelines and may not have included a like for like component list like in USA. and, after built GE and the deal was sealed.. GE is out of the picture for future upgrades mandatory or not just like the big utility companies in USA.
by dean 6/4/2011 7:39:51 PM

will be back in a bit..
by dean 6/4/2011 7:39:58 PM

sorry I do not know if this has already been answered but can anyone explain the significance of the 3-4,000 millisieverts of radiation coming out of the gap around that pipe? I read on www.physicsforums.com that it wouldn't make sense to have actual boiling water coming up from that area without other parts of the plant being underwater as well... Maybe I just didn't understand it...
by Darren 6/4/2011 7:40:05 PM

This is the guy that I am talking about @Elainekirk.
by Lethbridgean 6/4/2011 7:40:07 PM

by Lethbridgean 6/4/2011 7:40:48 PM

Part 3 of the interview. I suggest you watch this before the water gets anymore muddy.
by Lethbridgean 6/4/2011 7:42:22 PM

Part 4
by Lethbridgean 6/4/2011 7:43:24 PM

@darren I posted flood plans for the units a few days ago they are all flooded and I believe that @edano like myself believes that the groundwater is now argh due to land shift the land the units are on is now lower you really need @edano to explain it
by elainekirk 6/4/2011 7:43:41 PM

@Darren the lower levels of the building are flooded with temp hot ~50 C or 122 F, and radioactive extremely high levels. Down there, contained partially or completeley lies the corium with high radioactivity and very hot. This leads to radioactive steam/vapor coming up from below, through normal floor penetrations.
by RBeaner 6/4/2011 7:44:01 PM

@elainekirk the Normal, Pre-quake, groundwater level has always been higer than the lower building levels. They just pumped the groundwaterlevel down on a continuous basis, prior to quake.
by RBeaner 6/4/2011 7:45:35 PM

@rbeaner thank you
by elainekirk 6/4/2011 7:46:06 PM

This is the last part of the interview Part 5. This guy probably won't be around when this all gets settled.
by Lethbridgean 6/4/2011 7:47:07 PM

in fact, they cannot pump up and clean the entire groundwater of the region.
by Edano 6/4/2011 7:48:51 PM

@elainekirk Np, the water in #5 and 6 is believed to be mostly groundwater, but inside #1,2,3 &4 is the hot stuff that went through rpv's or SFP's. Groundwater Outside the buildings, is higher level today than the water inside the buildings. This is good, because it causes water Infiltration instead of water and Radioactivity Exfiltration to the outside.
by RBeaner 6/4/2011 7:49:20 PM

@RBeaner got it but I guess my confusion is TEPCO is saying that the radiation is only in a "small area" of the facility. But water would level out all over the facility at the same level due to gravity, no? So wouldn't the flood level be covering all areas of the facility equally that are at the same height as wherever that robot was?
by Darren 6/4/2011 7:49:43 PM

@Lethbridgean i remember that interview w/GE Whistleblower. i posted it quite a few weeks ago and asked Dean his opinion on the guy.
by Tenzing 6/4/2011 7:50:07 PM

@Tenzing - Seems like it is being ignored.
by Lethbridgean 6/4/2011 7:50:52 PM

It isnt being ignored I have watched them before and will watch them again but cant at the moment as the family are watching a movie
by elainekirk 6/4/2011 7:53:56 PM

@Lethbridgean Other stuff from Jack Shannon (read the thread and others like it) - www.animatedsoftware.com
by Darren 6/4/2011 7:54:05 PM

4) Prevention of Hydrogen Accumulation in Piping

On November 7, 2001, a part of residual heat removal system piping of the Unit 1 (BWR) of the
Hamaoka Nuclear Power Station, Chubu Electric Power Co., Inc., ruptured by rapid
combustion of the non-condensable gas (i.e., hydrogen) accumulated in the piping.

NISA instructed BWR licence holders to alter steam condensation system piping of the residual
heat removal system by removing a part of piping or installing a shutoff valve in it to prevent
accumulation of hydrogen, and to alter, for example, the inclination of other piping systems
where hydrogen may accumulate.
docs.google.com
by elainekirk 6/4/2011 7:55:08 PM

@elainekirk there are some good graphics in this pdf if you or nanc or someone who is not me:) can clip and post them. www.tepco.co.jp your post earlier
will do thank you I will mail to nancy too
by RBeaner edited by elainekirk 6/4/2011 7:55:24 PM

@Darren The water is below the floor. The floor is probably a foot of concrete (Idon't know) but that would knock rad readings down, or the Highest levels may be coming up with the vapor.
by RBeaner 6/4/2011 7:57:58 PM

www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 6/4/2011 8:01:09 PM

@Darren Radiation decreases rapidly when you move away from a physically small source, it decreaces with the square of the distance, double the distance quarter the dose. If you have 4Sv/Hr at 1 foot, and move away to 2 foot, you will have 1 Sv/hr. The radiation level doesn't decrease as rapidly when you move away from a physically large source (like a pool of water).
by RBeaner 6/4/2011 8:02:34 PM

@elainekirk good job, but go watch The Lion King, we'll be OK:) You work to hard anyway.
by RBeaner 6/4/2011 8:04:27 PM

@Darren water seeks its own level within in its boundry.... so put up a wall or curb, etc and it will seek ist own level relavent to the shape it is in
by fitter 6/4/2011 8:12:51 PM

@RBeaner there was an article (I will look for ) that shows some interesting details that one would not consider in the norm of the groundwater conversation... with that said I am myself not sure that they were pumping pure ground water (fresh) or a combination of brackish water... was not what i was looking for at the time but it was intersing and strange to say the least... will post later if I can find.... does not change your post thought ...
by fitter 6/4/2011 8:17:47 PM

@fitter an oldy but a goody "The pumps are located around the reactor building and designed to prevent the building from moving due to the buoyancy of the groundwater.

www.asahi.com
by RBeaner 6/4/2011 8:20:18 PM

@RBeaner "The radiation level doesn't decrease as rapidly when you move away from a physically large source (like a pool of water)."
Tt decreases at the very same path, with the square of the distance, the point here is if you are really moving away of the source or apparently moving only.
by estacion 6/4/2011 8:21:25 PM

@RBeaner But what is the definition of ground water??????? I agree with the bouancy/groundwater thing! This article was explaining the tables of water.... fresh vs brackish... vs salt
by fitter 6/4/2011 8:22:33 PM

@RBeaner All being "undergroud"
by fitter 6/4/2011 8:23:07 PM

@fitter Yeah, understand now, groundwater to me is what is in the ground outside, it is probably infiltrated by the ocean this close. They used to pump to maintain a depth of 15 meters, thats ocean level I think. There is no Aquifer like drinking water at Daiichi
by RBeaner 6/4/2011 8:27:31 PM

@estacion no, it doesn't , for a physically small or point source As previously mentioned, the exposure rate is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source. For a Line source (a pipe) the exposure rate is inversely proportional to the distance from the source and for a plane source (like a wall or pool) When the distance to the plane source is small compared to the longest dimension, then the exposure rate falls off a little slower than 1/d (i.e. not as quickly as a line source). As the distance from the plane source increases, then the exposure rate drops off at a rate approaching 1/d2.
by RBeaner 6/4/2011 8:34:30 PM

"apparently moving only" is the magical words. Away from a line, plane. or volume imply more a one distance, you must to compute the integer of all distances from you to the line, plane or volume to obtain a real distance. So phisics law are the same in all the cases.
by estacion 6/4/2011 8:41:48 PM

*more of
by estacion 6/4/2011 8:42:34 PM

www.dalailama.com "There is no doubt about the increase in our material progress and technology, but somehow this is not sufficient as we have not yet succeeded in bringing about peace and happiness or in overcoming suffering.

We can only conclude that there must be something seriously wrong with our progress and development, and if we do not check it in time there could be disastrous consequences for the future of humanity. I am not at all against science and technology - they have contributed immensely to the overall experience of humankind; to our material comfort and well-being and to our greater understanding of the world we live in. But if we give too much emphasis to science and technology we are in danger of losing touch with those aspects of human knowledge and understanding that aspire towards honesty and altruism.

Science and technology, though capable of creating immeasurable material comfort, cannot replace the age-old spiritual and humanitarian values that have largely shaped world civilization, in all its national forms, as we know it today. No one can deny the unprecedented material benefit of science and technology, but our basic human problems remain; we are still faced with the same, if not more, suffering, fear, and tension. Thus it is only logical to try to strike a balance between material developments on the one hand and the development of spiritual, human values on the other. In order to bring about this great adjustment, we need to revive our humanitarian values."
by Tenzing 6/4/2011 8:46:06 PM

@estacion The physics doesn't change, but the reason they use big banks of lights at sports fields instead of one mega halogen, is to "project" the light farther away.
by RBeaner 6/4/2011 8:47:21 PM

@RBeaner - no it is because one big light (mega halogen) would result in alot of shadows.. Multiple lights from different angles minimizes this negative effect that is undesireable in a sporting event....I think that those lights are sodium(old way) or LED lights(new more effecient way) www.homefields.com
by Lethbridgean 6/4/2011 9:00:29 PM

@RBeaner "they use big banks of lights at sports fields instead of one mega halogen, is to "project" the light farther away."
Sorry but it's false, the real reason for big banks of lights are the homogeneity of light and shadows, decrease of heat per bulb, decrease of total black out in case fo faliure and some others, but distance/lux for every point, don't change a bit.
by estacion 6/4/2011 9:01:31 PM

@Lethbridgean you beat me :)
by estacion 6/4/2011 9:02:21 PM

@estacion - yours was a more technically correct reason but we are both in agreement I think about the misleading nature of the post in question....Beware of shadows.
by Lethbridgean 6/4/2011 9:03:35 PM

@fitter , I recall you asked the other day where our table salt comes from. I am cooking, look at our salt cellar (nice word for what it is), and find this piece of info "Morton also offers a line of iodized and Natural All Purpose Sea Salt from the sparkling waters of the PACIFIC OCEAN ;) Read more here: mortonsalt.com
by Peter Melzer 6/4/2011 9:13:24 PM

Unit 1 sfp is only 1m water level, there is fast decrease, if they will not inject water fuel will be exposed in less than 24h
by xxx 6/4/2011 9:16:46 PM

Some people maybe didnt saw this: tepco discovered that unit 1 RPV is at atmospheric pressure after instaling new pressure indicators
by xxx 6/4/2011 9:16:49 PM