Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1584

Greetings all, back in the
glow here in Japan.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:19:34 PM

Heartbreaking story about discrimination against Fukushima victims: www.theaustralian.com.au
by bo 6/11/2011 2:20:09 PM

Also, don't know if this was posted as I was traveling home, but check out this picture above.....
by bo 6/11/2011 2:21:10 PM

Residents who were allowed to return to the evacuation zone and gather some belongings. Their bus broke down and they had to endure further exposures as they waited for a replacement bus to show up!
by bo 6/11/2011 2:22:12 PM

@bo Oh jeez. I am sure it was hot on top of everything else...

With the level of communication we have today vs. WWII can't something be done to educate people to help counter these prejudices?
by lillymunster 6/11/2011 2:25:33 PM

@bo Some of this prejudice is due to ignorance about radiation, which the government has fostered.
by Bobby1 6/11/2011 2:26:32 PM

@lillymunster and @Bobby1 I agree totally. But I would say that many of these attitudes about radiation are not "rational," but rather they are visceral. They are related to the gut response to contamination and poison. Education will help, but these feelings come from the brain in our stomach.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:29:24 PM

These are the kinds of things I have encountered in my work with hibakusha communities around the globe. The attitudes can continue for 50 years without any basis in physical fact.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:30:25 PM

@bo Would public education help at all? It just seems so senseless. I am sure the contentious opinions in the scientific community about radiation effects on people don't help.

by lillymunster 6/11/2011 2:31:51 PM

@lillymunster absolutely it would help. There should be focused and ongoing efforts to educate people. I don't believe it will alleviate all of the prejudice, but even if it alleviates 20% it is worth every effort. Another failure of the GOJ.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:32:51 PM

I had another question. Food prices in the US have been rising again and some food stuffs projected to go up another 25%. Climate issues like floods and droughts are blamed along with high gas prices. It made me wonder what food prices in Japan are like if prices in the US are high.
by lillymunster 6/11/2011 2:33:00 PM

Well I am just returned so I don't know, but the fridge is empty, so off to the store tomorrow. I will report back then!
by bo 6/11/2011 2:33:42 PM

Too busy trying to squash "rumors" unfriendly to business. Again the people get overlooked.
by lillymunster 6/11/2011 2:33:49 PM

Business. Business. Business. The three primary concerns of the GOJ in the response to Fukushima.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:34:20 PM

@bo Thanks. I was really curious how food is playing out with exports in going up and the loss of domestic supply portions
by lillymunster 6/11/2011 2:34:33 PM

@bo No kidding. Sadly I am seeing some of the same mentality around Ft. Calhoun NPP in Nebraska. The local govt. has their head in the sand about the risks and spouts the same PR that was spouted about Fukushima before the disaster. "Everything is fine, we dont need to inspect anything we are totally safe".
by lillymunster 6/11/2011 2:35:59 PM

Well a lot of the food price thing is market speculators manipulating prices for profit, but that will only make it worse here. Many people are buying imported foods here, I think that the situation is currently in chaos. I'm sure we will see increased Chinese produce imports among other things.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:36:16 PM

The ironic thing is that full disclosure would help the exports of Japanese products, for those that are not contaminated. Lack of disclosure, and mixing contaminated food with non-contaminated, makes importers reject it all.
by Bobby1 6/11/2011 2:36:24 PM

@bo That account of the wedding that was cancelled due to prejudice against someone born in Fukushima sounds as true as the news released yesterday, by another Australian source, that the Government of Japan had finally admitted that the cores of three reactors in Fukushima Daiichi had reached the earth below the reactors' units. I find it really hard to believe. But it does illustrate, in a rather silly way, how ignorance can corrode society. By the way, what's the source of the picture you posted? Are there any other pictures? Thanks for the input. Your contribution is and has been invaluable.
by Pedro Jesus 6/11/2011 2:36:39 PM

@lillymunster--SOP. Standard operating procedure.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:36:41 PM

@Bobby1 I agree. The Japanese should be getting out in front of this. My fear (one of them) is that the "success" of minimizing the meltdowns in the press only encourages the bastards to keep their heads in the sand.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:37:35 PM

@bo The only "success" the government has had is success in lies and deception.
by Bobby1 6/11/2011 2:39:05 PM

@Pedro Jesus ty. The pic is credited as AP/Kyodo. The veracity of the various stories may vary. The Aussie news crew claims to have contacted the principles in this case. But either way, for every story that makes it into the press, or is cooked up by the press, my experience has taught me that there are 100 that never make it beyond personal interactions.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:39:12 PM

@Bobby1 exactly. So expect more of the same.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:39:27 PM

@Bobby1 It is a very real concern. I can't bring myself to buy Japanese consumable products unless I can determine they were produced before the quake. If there was some sort of inspection system in place I wouldn't have that reluctance. A testing program would do a considerable good for Japanese companies bottom line.
by lillymunster 6/11/2011 2:40:00 PM

@bo @lillymunster Unfortunately, the contamination is spreading so soon there won't be any uncontaminated products. Even Hokkaido has areas 2x background now.
by Bobby1 6/11/2011 2:42:18 PM

@lillymunster they are banking on only a small percentage of us to pay attention. They may well be wrong. Just to be crass, this is such an opportunity for a brave politician to lead the way towards openness and responsibility. Hard to imagine it happening.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:42:45 PM

@Bobby1 I agree. I am very anxious about the food supply here. The company that went public about the request to hush up the contamination of tea was an organic food supplier, so they had morals about things besides profits. But 95% of companies may not be so principled.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:43:49 PM

@bo The tea story has been making it into the msm in the US. So there is the potential to turn average people off of green tea entirely assuming it is all contaminated. That could be even worse for that product than the contamination that is actually happening. Without a reliable way to sort safe from not safe many people will just stop consuming it.
by lillymunster 6/11/2011 2:46:05 PM

Someone was explaining last night between different types of radiation situations such as a bomb or criticality accident would make things irradiated to the point you couldn't touch them. IE: an irradiated coin that could make people sick vs. the type of contamination from the smoke and dust from Fuku being an issue but in different ways. IE: the dust and particles are dangerous but cleaning them off of a non pourous object the object could be made safe?
by lillymunster 6/11/2011 2:48:37 PM

@lillymunster I am a bit of a fatalist on this topic. I think that people will just not buy Japanese products, televisions and cars included. If someone is looking at a Japanese television and a Korean television, when it comes time to make a choice, they will choose the Korean one. Our purchase choices come from very irrational places, and people will just avoid Japanese anythings. On the plane today there were only Japanese people and US military. Usually there are plenty of backpackers and families. I'm sure there will be almost no tourists in Kyoto this summer. We should try to educate people, but like I say, I don't see these things as coming from a rational place. Even if you tell people that radiation is not transferable, and they cannot catch it from someone, they will still discriminate against people from Fukushima prefecture. We may be smart monkeys, but we are monkeys.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:49:53 PM

@lillymunster Yes that's true, assuming you can clean it effectively. The neutron radiation from a criticality explosion would make all the concrete radioactive, but we're talking about dust settling on everything.
by Bobby1 6/11/2011 2:51:25 PM

They have filtration running at #2 but TEPCO complained the high humidity at 1 was making the filtration ineffective. So not sure how they intend to clean the air in 2 with the high humidity. www3.nhk.or.jp
by lillymunster 6/11/2011 2:54:43 PM

@bo That's why it is of utter importance to be true and clear while evaluating the situation in Japan and assessing the potential dangers. Things like Arnie Gundersen's sentence "it's time to leave Japan" are irresponsible, particularly coming from an engineer with his credentials, just to give an example.
by Pedro Jesus 6/11/2011 2:55:28 PM

The health and labor ministry says plant workers are getting unhealthy and that at least 12 have been diagnosed with heatstroke. www3.nhk.or.jp
by lillymunster 6/11/2011 2:56:03 PM

@Pedro Jesus He did say that in context of if #4 sfp were to collapse.
by lillymunster 6/11/2011 2:56:44 PM

@Pedro Jesus I understand, but in these situations, information is never complete in a timeline that allows for informed decisions. I don't fault people who make decisions based on their guts. Many of the people who fled Tokyo in the first two weeks did so on nothing more than fear or instinct, but now we can see that it was wise.
by bo 6/11/2011 2:58:18 PM

@Pedro Jesus Arnie has done a good job imo, a collapse of #4 would be a huge disaster, and we already know that the GoJ will sit on the radiation forecasts like they did after the initial explosions, and not tell anyone.
by Bobby1 6/11/2011 2:59:06 PM

Fukushima workers' exposure tops 650mSV: www3.nhk.or.jp
by bo 6/11/2011 3:01:28 PM

@all well I have to call it a night. I left Paris at 8 pm yesterday and am finally sleeping in my own bed tonight (!). But back in Japan, so I will be on more like usual from now on. Mata friends.
by bo 6/11/2011 3:08:58 PM

@bo Hi there. Am I right in thinking you're in Hiroshima? If so, I'm not so far away here in Shikoku (SW Kochi). We are also similar distances from Fukushima. I was wondering how people are feeling about the threat from contamination in Hiroshima and what concerns people might be expressing about food. I know it is difficult to gauge (I'm inconsistent myself hour to hour!) but do you have any impressions? Here I would say most people think Fukushima is far away and yet at the same time there is growing unease. Further a small(ish?) number of people are really concerned, often as they might have more knowledge of what is going on due to contacts or the nature of their work etc. Monitoring seems non-existent. The local city office says there are no plans for measuring radiation levels. In the whole prefecture they said measurements are only being taken at the city office in Kochi city.
by Will 6/11/2011 3:09:18 PM

@Will Have you noticed food prices going up where you are?

@Bo, night. Good seeing you again.
by lillymunster 6/11/2011 3:12:34 PM

@Bobby1 I think it's about time the GoJ stops relying on unreliable projections and starts investing more on reliable scientific analysis. Gundersen has been doing very good analysis but he doesn't understand much of the social and economic repercussions of some of his comments. He's a bit too extreme sometimes. The situation doesn't call for complete evacuation of the whole territory of Japan like he has suggested at times. There must be conscious information and advice, not cataclysmic insinuations. Got to go for now. Keep up the good work.
by Pedro Jesus 6/11/2011 3:13:36 PM

@All I am now going to sleep.....its 1:30am and I have no idea what I am writing any more with my assignment. See you all in a few hours!!
by Angie 6/11/2011 3:19:25 PM

@Will yes in Hiroshima. But I have been gone for 3-4 weeks, so a little out of touch with the mood. I'll post on it in the next day or two as I get more integrated. Meanwhile, if you ever get to Hiro give me a shout out and we can catch a drink or an okonomiyaki!
by bo 6/11/2011 3:20:48 PM