Japan Earthquake | Page 1822

  • @elainekirk Exactly, the stumbling stone i tripped over !
    ZERO responsibility statement
    by Veenie 7/3/2011 8:11:49 PM

  • @Veenie Once those first cracks start in the wall, it just gets harder and harder to shore up, because the people whose only crime was being duped or less than diligent suddenly have incentive to desert the ship. Even the EPA had to say, "well.. um... yes... there mumblemumblewasfukushimafalloutinthereainwatermumblemumble".
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 8:12:47 PM

  • @Ian going off at a tangent a little but do you have video of #1 blast?
    by elainekirk 7/3/2011 8:14:28 PM

  • That disclaimer is so transparently disingenuous it hurts. It's pre-selling the "But how could anyone have known the GoJ were so [insert talking point here].
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 8:18:43 PM

  • @Elaine : www.youtube.com
    by Ian 7/3/2011 8:19:36 PM

  • @all a question: I keep seeing variations of "Former Minister for Internal Affairs Haraguchi Kazuhiro has alleged that radiation monitoring station data was actually three decimal places greater than the numbers released to the public." Does anyone know what he's talking about? All I see are references to his statement.
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 8:21:27 PM

  • @RadioGuy, surely such a massive difference would be detected by contrast to private-citizen monitoring, which by my observations have matched official radiation data with the exception that official data never (afaik) tests the ground, and when citizens test the ground (in Japan) they sometimes get some really high readings. See www.youtube.com
    by Ian 7/3/2011 8:33:18 PM

  • @Ian @RadioGuy after the double doors were opened nisa asked tepco to report on why there was a discrepancy in readings in towns near the plant and tepco explained it as the lower readings being because they just stuck their hand out of the car window , maybe they are talking about the zone readings that were taken by car in the days before speedi linked to monitoring stations was erm officially 'working' a former minister would have been aware of the different readings ? are they still using car data or are they using speedi stations now
    by elainekirk 7/3/2011 8:42:54 PM

  • This is an English source of the three-decimal-places-off claim, and it links to a Japanese source : japanfocus.org It's certainly possible in some places at some times, but I'm skeptical based on citizen-derived data of massive global data falsification.
    by Ian 7/3/2011 8:48:03 PM

  • And by 'global' I mean throughout Japan - not the best choice of words for geological territories.
    by Ian 7/3/2011 8:49:32 PM

  • @Ian Interesting article
    by elainekirk 7/3/2011 9:02:00 PM

  • Here's a map of SFP4 from the DoE's Fukushima report, no sign of two pools : iangoddard.com

    by Ian via Iangoddard 7/3/2011 9:05:44 PM

  • @Ian ty Ian brilliant you are totally on top today :)
    by elainekirk 7/3/2011 9:14:55 PM

  • Also consider that the source of the two-pool claim atomicinsights.com says fuel is taken from the reactor and placed into the shallow pool. Um, that's totally illogical! The hottest fuel would require the most shielding. Moreover, the DoE's SFP4 heat map www.ne.doe.gov shows the hottest fuel in the common body, but the source says of the fuel removed from Rector 4 into the shallow pool during maintenance "only a little fuel in this upper pool at the time of the quake," so presumably there should be a small set of fuel that's the hottest on the DoE heat map. But no such subset exists. How can this source be correct and everyone else, including the DoE be wrong?
    by Ian 7/3/2011 9:21:50 PM

  • @Ian That was as as far as I could follow the Haraguchi Kazuhiro reference as well. I found that same article linked differently.

    On that heat map: that right hand section is so organized, which is, what I (silly me) would expect for a pool designed for the systematic aging and storage-till-removal of spent assemblies. Hot to cool, the green either ready to remove or unused, though I'd think if it were unused and you were merely storing it you might put it all together like that one cool block in the lower middle? What's with that smaller right hand area; different layer?
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 9:34:52 PM

  • @RadioGuy, the smaller right hand area appears to be empty. I'd not infer from empty to other layer, and either way, it's cold and not storing the hottest fuel. A commenter to the article also disputes the two-pool claim, and the blogger says he has no idea atomicinsights.com This has every sign of BS.
    by Ian 7/3/2011 9:40:34 PM

  • I meant the two columns on the right with the nice even temperature gradient.
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 9:41:59 PM

  • I have no reason to believe a two-pool system or not. I'm just trying to figure out the layout of the pool based on what we see there. What's the most dangerous area, and where is it in relation to the containment building?
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 9:43:53 PM


  • @RadioGuy, right same here. And my thinking is the two columns on the right contain the coldest fuel in the pool, and fuel most recently removed from the core wouldn't be the coldest.
    by Ian 7/3/2011 9:44:59 PM

  • Exactly. Some of the hottest seems to be right along the bottom edge.
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 9:45:30 PM

  • I assumed this two-pool claim true at first since it came by way of a reliable source, but looking into it, it only
    falls apart.
    by Ian 7/3/2011 9:46:10 PM

  • We've seen that rumor in various forms all along. There was the earlier incarnation that SFP4 was double-racked. Same thing I guess. I wonder if it's just rumors recirculating or some half-understood fact that started the rumor originally.
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 9:48:09 PM

  • What's disturbing about the two-pool claim atomicinsights.com is that much details is given to how it was damaged by the explosion, and it's presented as fact, not theory. So it rings of a hoax. It's attributed MURRAY E. MILES and what lookslike a fake school keeseschool.org The alleged author has this blog michelekearneynuclearwire.blogspot.com with no entry resembling that quoted at the source atomicinsights.com Which is authored by a pro-nuke guy who attacks Arnie.
    by Ian 7/3/2011 9:55:20 PM

  • Sorry, the blog cited michelekearneynuclearwire.blogspot.com isn't of the author, Murray E. Miles.
    by Ian 7/3/2011 10:00:33 PM

  • @Ian @Radioguy IDK if it helps, but I do remember that new fuel is put into the spf to 'catch' some radioactivity before it is inserted into the well...Don't know more than that, tho.
    by M.I.A. 7/3/2011 10:10:07 PM

  • Hi all, back for a bit.
    by lillymunster 7/3/2011 10:10:17 PM

  • I can hopefully shed some light on the SFP situation. There is ONE uniform depth pool in each of the reactors at FUKU. 1-5 are of a mostly uniform design with gradual improvements as each new one was built. There are no major deviations from the generic design such as two pools or a divided pool with a gate.
    by lillymunster 7/3/2011 10:11:39 PM

  • 3&4 are identical builds and I have a large amount of detail images of #3 due to it being used for the public PR tours.
    by lillymunster 7/3/2011 10:12:45 PM

  • What I know about the fuel process at FUKU is that they have one layer of racking. The double racking done in the US is really confusing, it is mentioned by the NRC in a way that makes you think two layers. What they did instead was to get new racks that are very close together and have boron plates to dampen the rods to compensate for the lack or room between assemblies. I don't know if Fuku added the tighter racks for sure or not. They do have both the common fuel pool and cask storage. The common fuel pool is huge and is where the oldest fuel goes before it would go into casks. Casks eventually go (or are intended to go) for fuel reprocessing. So whatever is in the SFP that is the oldest would leave first.
    by lillymunster 7/3/2011 10:15:54 PM

  • @lillymunster , I read your sum-up for simplyinfo that you posted earlier. Conicidnetally, i finished my exploration on design weaknesses of standby cooling systems. It chimes real well with the Atlantic wire article you cite. Have a look: brainmindinst.blogspot.com , :)
    by Peter Melzer 7/3/2011 10:25:01 PM

  • The Keese School of Continuing Education is an educational program at a retirement home. It isn't a school in the sense this fraud is passing it off as. keeseschool.org
    by lillymunster 7/3/2011 10:25:16 PM

  • #5 still making problems, severe ?

    english.kyodonews.jp

    Cooling of Fukushima Daiichi's No. 5 unit resumes after hose replaced

    TOKYO, July 3, Kyodo

    Cooling of the No. 5 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant was resumed after it was suspended Sunday to replace a damaged hose in the cooling system, plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. said.

    The cooling function was turned off at 10:15 a.m. after a worker on patrol found seawater leaking from the makeshift plastic hose in the residual heat removal system earlier in the morning, according to the utility known as TEPCO.

    The hose, with a diameter of about 20 centimeters and which carries seawater, had a tear about 30 cm long and 7 cm wide in a part where it was curved in a U-shape.
    english.kyodonews.jp

    by Edano via English.kyodonews.jp 7/3/2011 10:27:44 PM

  • The blog and author Ian found this on Rod Adams, his only actual nuclear experience was as an engineer in the Navy. His other "experience" is a "business" he created that didnt do anything and he closed it down. He sounds like another faux Phd. whose name I won't mention. :-)
    by lillymunster 7/3/2011 10:28:28 PM


  • Damaged hose at Fukushima Daiichi's No. 5 unit

    Supplied photo shows seawater splashing out from a cracked hose of the residual heat removal system of the No. 5 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in Fukushima Prefecture on July 3, 2011. Cooling of the reactor was resumed after it was suspended to replace the hose. (Photo courtesy of Tokyo Electric Power Co.)(Kyodo)
    english.kyodonews.jp

    by Edano via English.kyodonews.jp edited by Edano 7/3/2011 10:28:36 PM

  • Tsuruga reactor not equipped with vent to relieve pressure

    TOKYO, July 4, Kyodo
    english.kyodonews.jp
    by Edano 7/3/2011 10:30:44 PM

  • @you imagine, the problem is known since the 80ies.....
    by Edano 7/3/2011 10:31:23 PM

  • @lillymunster That was my take on that atomicinsights story, too. That myth is interesting, though, because their hypothesis seems to be "since we know this other pool was there, and we don't see it now, it must have been destroyed." It started with a postulation that we can only take on faith that the author actually knows to be true. May I postulate a third layer that was also destroyed then?

    Much of the disinformation is attributable lay people making factual errors about complex information, but when people who should know better spout it, it's either total, unquestioning belief in what you're fed, or it's dropping seeds of patently incorrect information so they can be picked up and magnified if they gain any traction.

    A certain level of inaccuracy is normal, but there's a level of disinformation I think of these days as the Dan Rather level: Rather, not as propagator, but as victim. When your scoop turns out to be a false bombshell and blows up in your face, that is then magnified as discrediting everything else you ever said. I think there is a fair amount of information poisoning going on out there. It's the dark side of the branch of psyops we call PR and marketing.
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 10:31:33 PM

  • @Edano marvelously negligent :)
    by elainekirk 7/3/2011 10:33:33 PM

  • @Edano Nah, that could never happen. These guys are professionals.

    It all just leaves you shaking your head in disbelief.
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 10:33:41 PM

  • it's a funny thing that you can construct a reactor, and from then on nobody cares about upgrades. what's the iaea there for ? just promoting nukes ?
    by Edano 7/3/2011 10:35:09 PM

  • @Edano Oddly enough, that hose image is almost bang on the black-humor image I have of the insides of that plant. Just like that all over. It's almost eerie how close it looks to my internal parody.
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 10:35:38 PM

  • i mean, you cannot expect that the population makes themself nuke experts and demand a wallmann valve, ey ?
    by Edano 7/3/2011 10:36:43 PM

  • @Edano chuckling. Probably a bit much from a public still struggling with picobequerems. ;)
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 10:37:46 PM

  • @RadioGuy : a bursting hose and they detect it during a patrol ? i really thought there are gauges and blinking alarm lights in such a case. this all is so low tech that you can hardly believe it !
    by Edano edited by Edano 7/3/2011 10:39:26 PM

  • @Edano Right up there with the disconnected hoses on the magical mashine that no one noticed were disconnected. "But why isn't it working?"
    by RadioGuy 7/3/2011 10:40:46 PM

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