Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1888

www.anengineerindc.com @LILLY and all... this article says that the OYSTER CREEK,,..this could be the very document we want to review.. it has comparisions etc... check it out
by dean 7/11/2011 1:36:43 AM

Peter.. please take a look at that link ..
by dean 7/11/2011 1:36:58 AM

excellent smoss
by dean 7/11/2011 1:37:15 AM

econtent.unm.edu for full PDF of oyster creek
by dean 7/11/2011 1:38:25 AM

@Peter Melzer about 4's sfp. The refueling crane is obviously heavy. Moving it back could put more stress on the back part of the sfp where it connects into the concrete containment bulb. That seemed to be an area of concern when they were bracing it. It also had visible water trails like there were small leaks there. Moving the refueling crane might also require moving the overhead crane and that may be off its track. The track is part of those outer walls so moving that may be impossible as those walls have no support ability.It becomes a bit of a standoff. How to access the pool but not destroy the fragile remaining structure for fear it might make things worse.
by lillymunster 7/11/2011 1:40:25 AM

@elainekirk thanks. Now off to work for me. Back in a bit.
by bo 7/11/2011 1:40:55 AM

Vermont Yankee Plant Controversy: Nuclear Regulatory Commission Keeps Information From Public
www.huffingtonpost.com
"When a nuclear watchdog group asked the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for a study on leaks of radioactive water at the Vermont Yankee plant, it was told the NRC had seen the report but had never officially taken custody of it – so it wasn't public.
...
An NRC spokeswoman confirmed the agency routinely sees industry reports that it does not share on its public web site.

"We don't take possession of them so you can't get them from us," said Diane Screnci, spokeswoman in the NRC's Northeast regional office."

Nice dodge.
by RadioGuy 7/11/2011 1:43:50 AM

@ lilly . in my assessment they will have to have two cranes.. one fitted with the cask to hold the spent then one to lift the spent fuel elements out of the storage racks and transfer to the handling cask.. which by the way will not be able to be sat on the floor of the canal.. and will have to be suspended... also they will have to have a way to take the lid off the handling cask and put the lid back on ...
by dean 7/11/2011 1:45:09 AM

they could use external crane sources tho.. and hopefully lift all the debris out from over the canlsl
by dean 7/11/2011 1:45:42 AM

canal
by dean 7/11/2011 1:45:44 AM

@dean , I discussed this post with Lilly the other week. The guy is mistaken. Unit 1 had two isolation condensers according to the NISA report to IAEA. You can see them in Lilly's drawing below also. In addition unit 1 had hardened vents: one connected to the dry-well, the other to the wet well. Oyster Creek is a BWR-2. Unit 1 is closer to the Dresden units.
by Peter Melzer 7/11/2011 1:47:38 AM

sounds good...
by dean 7/11/2011 1:49:59 AM

time for some rest.. will be back in a few hours..
by dean 7/11/2011 1:51:00 AM

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
by dean 7/11/2011 1:52:23 AM

Japan brings order to its mountains of urban rubbish www.smh.com.au
by Panserbjorne9 7/11/2011 1:53:46 AM

from tweetdom

W7VOA Steve Herman
In Tokyo, awaiting #Japan gov't announcement today of details of "stress tests" for idled nuke plants.
by Elaine Kirk 7/11/2011 1:54:49 AM

@Peter Melzer I think finding some more details on Dresden and Oyster Creek should help determine what one is closest to FUKU Wiki says Fuku #1 is a BWR3/Mark 1. So are the Dresden units BWR3? I have not reserched them much but the come up frequently
by lillymunster 7/11/2011 1:58:05 AM

@Elaine Kirk , so much for our coffee, ;)
by Peter Melzer 7/11/2011 1:58:12 AM

Dresden 2 (still running) GE BWR3/Mark1 - now to find out what is the same as fuku and what isn't.
by lillymunster 7/11/2011 2:01:02 AM

Harm from Fukushima Radiation: A Matter Of Perspective
blogs.forbes.com
by Panserbjorne9 7/11/2011 2:02:48 AM

@lillymunster , yes I believe they are. But since the design evolved on the fly, there my be no clear cut line to be drawn. BWR-3s are not supposed to possess these condensers anymore. Yet Unit 1 had them. I also never saw that BWR-3 had hardened vents from the dry-well. That must be a Japanese invention. However, Dresden 2 with isolation condensers instead of the Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System would be my best guess.
by Peter Melzer 7/11/2011 2:03:32 AM

Lilly, the isolation condensers are the twin drums you see in the left drawing at the top left of the RPV under the service floor.
by Peter Melzer 7/11/2011 2:05:21 AM

@Peter Melzer The hardened vents from the drywell was that after fitting in 1989. US NRC mandated it but it sounds like some may have gotten a waiver? Japan asked but didn't possibly require hardened pipe. WHat about going after a BRW4/Mark1 unit in the US. That would be identical to Units 2-4 if we don't find a close enough match for unit 1.
by lillymunster 7/11/2011 2:06:15 AM

@Peter Melzer yes, it sounded like some old units didn't have an IC. Fuku #1 is documented to have the IC, it is in the disaster logs. All of this really makes me wonder what is being allowed to run in the US...
by lillymunster 7/11/2011 2:07:29 AM

..and I think the broken cranes in UNit 4 must be lifted off as soon a s possible. Another strong quake is going to throw them in the pool or something real bad.
by Peter Melzer 7/11/2011 2:07:36 AM

@Peter Melzer the refueling crane seems to just run on a track in the floor so it could possibly be pulled/lifted out. There are still bits of the roofline above the SFP. So would disturbing those cause enough side wall instability and movement to be a problem or not? That seems to be a concern.
by lillymunster 7/11/2011 2:09:57 AM

@lillymunster , I have got references in the addendum of my post: brainmindinst.blogspot.com .
by Peter Melzer 7/11/2011 2:10:25 AM

Helicopter Will Take Radiological Readings Throughout Puget Sound
universityplace.patch.com
by Panserbjorne9 7/11/2011 2:15:08 AM

Ran across this as a generic NPP image on Wikipedia. Wonder if the sunflowers were on purpose upload.wikimedia.org
by lillymunster via Upload.wikimedia.org 7/11/2011 2:20:15 AM

@lillymunster , they need to check whether the crane beam is wedged between them or whether you could lift it out without bringing those walls, or what is left of them, down. If they did not provide stabilization to the building, the top floor parts should be razed anyways.
by Peter Melzer 7/11/2011 2:20:34 AM

Additionally, NUREG/CR-6906 identifies that unlike other Fukushima Dai-Ichi

style Mark I containment systems, there are two (2) U.S Mark I units at

Brunswick 1 and 2 (NC) where the credited primary pressure suppression

containment structure, the drywell, is instead a reinforced concrete structure that

is lined with carbon steel and the wetwell or “torus” and also called the

suppression chamber is a hollow concrete structure that is lined with cylindrical

carbon steel sections to form the torus steel liner. docs.google.com
by Elaine Kirk 7/11/2011 2:23:14 AM

that doc below has all the mk1's I think I just get too confused about what I am looking for
by Elaine Kirk 7/11/2011 2:24:20 AM

@Peter, have any idea what this Wash - 1082 might mean? It signifies these drawings that are close to FUKU design atomicpowerreview.blogspot.com
by lillymunster 7/11/2011 2:24:28 AM

@Elaine Kirk THanks, will look at Brunswick details.
by lillymunster 7/11/2011 2:25:10 AM

Brunswick are BWR4/Mark1 - so they could be used to match up to 2-3
by lillymunster 7/11/2011 2:28:17 AM

. Similarly, NUREG/CR-6906 identifies that there are two (2) Mark

III units at Perry (OH) and Riverbend (LA) that unlike other Mark III containment

units constructed of reinforced concrete and steel liner instead, again, utilize a

variation of free standing steel primary containment comprised of a reinforced

concrete drywell and carbon steel wetwell pressure suppression containment
by Elaine Kirk 7/11/2011 2:28:24 AM

So far what seems to be shaking out:
Unit 1 FuKu = Dresden 2 & 3
Units 2 & 3 FUKU = Brunswick 1 & 2

Now to determine if these are close matches in containment style and GE design.
by lillymunster 7/11/2011 2:29:23 AM

@peter I made us drinking chocolate because it is my bedtime :) enjoy :) g'night all I have enjoyed the slower pace I got chance to read all the links people found :)
by Elaine Kirk 7/11/2011 2:33:17 AM